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Emma
 Emma
(@evolvingyourman_ivcr4j)
Member Admin

@khorina5

Welcome and thanks for the comment. You raise a good point. I think lots of men push for a cuckold or hotwife scenario out of a kinky fantasy and not to empower her. In fact it becomes the opposite since he is now controlling her sexuality and "pimping her out" as it were. I get really frustrated when I read about men wanting to push this on their wives or girlfriends. It really isn't suited for everyone most importantly it needs to be HER choice. If she isn't doing it to make her feel empowered and satisfy a need within her then it will make her resentful and will do more harm than good.

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Posted : 27/08/2020 2:58 pm
AandM, Ruined-Julie, Vikter and 2 people liked
subhubphx
(@subhubphx)
Honorable Member
Posted by: @evolvingyourman_ivcr4j

I get really frustrated when I read about men wanting to push this on their wives or girlfriends. It really isn't suited for everyone most importantly it needs to be HER choice. If she isn't doing it to make her feel empowered and satisfy a need within her then it will make her resentful and will do more harm than good.

Absofreakinglutely!  Nicely said.

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Posted : 27/08/2020 3:06 pm
Emma liked
Ruined-Julie
(@ruined-julie)
Trusted Member

Hello @khorina5

First of all welcome.
Secondly, I find your analysis very interesting. I've never really analyzed things from this angle before.
@evolvingyourman_ivcr4j is also right, the choice to meet another partner should remain the woman choice, even if the idea can be submitted (and not imposed) by you gentlemen.

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Topic starter Posted : 28/08/2020 1:00 am
subhubphx liked
khorina5
(@khorina5)
Eminent Member

Thank you, @evolvingyourman_ivcr4j & @ruined-julie. Yes, what i've learned is that really each person and couple are different, but in many cases it's sadly done only for the men's fantasy. As @ruined-julie says, ideally it should remain the woman choice.

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Posted : 28/08/2020 5:28 am
subhubphx liked
subhubphx
(@subhubphx)
Honorable Member
Posted by: @khorina5

Yes, what i've learned is that really each person and couple are different, but in many cases it's sadly done only for the men's fantasy. As @ruined-julie says, ideally it should remain the woman choice.

Truer words were never spoken my friend.  Thankfully I was aware of this risk at the outset of my WLM proposal to my then vanilla (but still kinky) Wife.  My hope for all couples that engage in orgasm control of the male, in whatever form that particular couple chooses, is that the female is truly and actually benefitted from the submission of her mate.  Without it, the female is merely a fetish peddler, which in and of itself would be the likely reason for the failure of that relationship.

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Posted : 28/08/2020 6:50 am
subhubphx
(@subhubphx)
Honorable Member

@ruined-julie 

Posted by: @ruined-julie

the choice to meet another partner should remain the woman choice, even if the idea can be submitted (and not imposed) by you gentlemen

I've always believed this to be true, and really never even knew it until I was lucky enough to come across this wonderful blog and be witness to the wisdom of these words.  

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Posted : 28/08/2020 6:53 am
mstara
(@mstara)
Estimable Member
Posted by: @evolvingyourman_ivcr4j

@khorina5

Welcome and thanks for the comment. You raise a good point. I think lots of men push for a cuckold or hotwife scenario out of a kinky fantasy and not to empower her. In fact it becomes the opposite since he is now controlling her sexuality and "pimping her out" as it were. I get really frustrated when I read about men wanting to push this on their wives or girlfriends. It really isn't suited for everyone most importantly it needs to be HER choice. If she isn't doing it to make her feel empowered and satisfy a need within her then it will make her resentful and will do more harm than good.

This was certainly true in our case. My husband had the fantasy of being cuckolded for years but I was never interested. We talked endlessly about the subject and I probed into his motivation for suggesting it.
Eventually I came to some understanding I think and accepted that he really was sincere, that he wasn't looking for an open marriage. However I still wasn't interested and so, whilst I was aware of his continued interest, the issue was dropped between us except for an occasional comment from him.

That was until a couple of years ago when I met someone who I found myself very attracted to. It's difficult to describe my attraction as it was never a challenge to my husband as this man wasn't someone I could ever see myself in a relationship with, but there was something exciting about him that was compelling. I think we both recognised the attraction early on but we never progressed it or confronted it with each other but rather just sought each others company when we were able. That wasn't very often as we only met three times each year for a few days at a work related event. These events are held in a conference centre over a few days and one evening over a drink we eventually admitted our mutual attraction.

Around this time was when I had my visit to the pro domme and explored the principles and ethics around alternative lifestyles. I also reopened the discussion with my husband around his fantasy of being cuckolded. At this time our dynamic had progressed and he was in chastity pretty much all the time, so his take on being cuckolded had shifted somewhat. When I discussed this man I'd met it was clear that, if it progressed, then my husband wouldn't be present and would only be able to hear about it second hand.

I'm not sure he thought I'd actually do it to be honest, especially as my previous stance was anti the idea for years. Now he accepts my decision, I don't rub his nose in it, nor do I share many details unless he asks for them. He knows that this is an occasional thing and we have discussed how this impacts our relationship and, at the moment, we are both comfortable with where we are.

So in the end it was entirely my decision, knowing my husbands view.

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Posted : 28/08/2020 9:40 am
AandM, Emma, subhubphx and 2 people liked
khorina5
(@khorina5)
Eminent Member

@mstara Thank You! Great example of the decision being made by a Wife while the initial suggestion was done by your husband.

i'm very interested in the 'difficult to describe' attraction You mention. Elsewhere in the forum, i described an experience i had of 'being desired' by a dominant gay man and i'm wondering if that's maybe behind my interest in cuckolding. But anyway, the attraction was crazy in a sense that i considered my life then as the happiest but the attraction made me blink and vividly imagined an alternate life and when i opened the eyes back it was unreasonable/dirty but wildly attractive option 🙂 One of those intense experiences in life. 

My Queen has had some experiences and we've talked them through but She hasn't pursued any. On the other side, not to be confused with wild but able to fantasize situations, She's had a couple of experiences with weirdos where i had to take the protector's role.  

 

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Posted : 28/08/2020 10:17 am
subhubphx liked
subhubphx
(@subhubphx)
Honorable Member
Posted by: @mstara

I'm not sure he thought I'd actually do it to be honest, especially as my previous stance was anti the idea for years. Now he accepts my decision, I don't rub his nose in it, nor do I share many details unless he asks for them. He knows that this is an occasional thing and we have discussed how this impacts our relationship and, at the moment, we are both comfortable with where we are.

So in the end it was entirely my decision, knowing my husbands view.

Thank you @mstara for this outstanding reply.  I know we each use our own yardsticks, so to speak, when we measure the use of, and meaning behind the terms used to identifying various individual aspects of our collective existences.  One of the outstanding things about our gracious host Emma, and the rest us minions is the acceptance and support of the individual aspects of our relationships.  As such, it allows for things unique to each of us can very easily be discussed in common fashion. 

For example, there is a wide variety of individual flavor of cuckoldery that exists among the most of the people that are commenting on it, yet each person's take seems to be summed up accurately using the term, Ethical Cuckoldery.  The use of the word ethical is apropos because without exception each couple represented in posts and comments genuinely has the happiness and best interest of their at the top of the list of necessities.  And that is a marvelous and wonderful thing.

 

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Posted : 28/08/2020 10:49 am
Emma
 Emma
(@evolvingyourman_ivcr4j)
Member Admin
Posted by: @mstara

It's difficult to describe my attraction as it was never a challenge to my husband as this man wasn't someone I could ever see myself in a relationship with, but there was something exciting about him that was compelling. I think we both recognised the attraction early on but we never progressed it or confronted it with each other but rather just sought each others company when we were able.

That part 300% yes.

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Posted : 28/08/2020 10:52 am
subhubphx liked
mstara
(@mstara)
Estimable Member
Posted by: @khorina5

i'm very interested in the 'difficult to describe' attraction You mention.

 

I'm not sure how to begin to describe it really.

Have you ever met someone who you found yourself revealing all sorts of personal information to but it's felt absolutely the natural thing to do, as though you've known them for ages?
Well it was part that, part that he is deeply interesting but is more interested in me than talking about himself (most men want to talk about themselves and their opinions). Part his good looks and his intense blue eyes - I'm a sucker for blue eyes! He is very intelligent and well educated (he's a lawyer) but doesn't make me feel like an ignoramus. He's in good shape too, which a bonus.

I guess that he's just the complete package, respectful but a presence in the room.
What can I say, he makes me more than a little moist when I'm with him!

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Posted : 30/08/2020 3:44 am
joebear and khorina5 liked
subhubphx
(@subhubphx)
Honorable Member

@mstara

He sounds like "live happily ever after, Prince Charming, husband" material.

Posted by: @mstara

I guess that he's just the complete package, respectful but a presence in the room.
What can I say, he makes me more than a little moist when I'm with him!

Elsewhere I tried to qualify my feelings ahead about remarks to these poly-friendly-non-monogamy because I am gingerly, cautiously taking one step at a time in that direction in my own real life, and because I want to make sure that I don't mistakenly be perceived as being judgmental because my emotional compass here is what I would feel if I were in the shoes of Kev, Matt and "your husband" (no disrespect, I just don't recall his name) Tara. 

Like some of the other member commenters and in using the "... in his shoes" way of thinking about it, I felt sad and hurt, and maybe even a little bit jealous for Kevin and of Andrew, while reading Emma's '.... Only Two Can Play' post.  I do realize that these men of course have their own individual feelings about seeing the women they love have sex with and share deep intimate moments alone with other men.  And, it's not my place to question whether those feelings are sufficient well thought out enough to enhance the mutually acknowledged end goal for each couple, or not.  Again, my only point of reference is gauge how I feel hypothetically by imagining these men being me, and you amazing women being my beloved, cherished Wife in your respective scenarios.

I believe that for a couple to successfully engage in ethical non-monogamy, it requires that both people's true wants and needs are being met.  For me it means that the ONLY reason I would want for my Wife to engage have sex with another person would be because it what SHE truly would like to experience in her life, in the context of our WLM and in her role as key holder of mine.  In other words, any desire I might have for this to actually lies solely in wanting to please her, and not because it is a fantasy of mine that I could somehow cajole her into believing it was hers.  It's not a fantasy on mine.  Conversely, if it never happened, it would only be because she has no interest in doing it, which would be perfectly ok with me.  All that said, and if it were to happen, my fear would be losing some of heart, and even more so, eventually all of it.  

My hope/idea of how it would look if she decided she wanted it to happen may be unrealistic.  It would probably need to include the absence of a non-sexual relationship between the two of them.  Her using this other person as an occasional  human sex toy in a way. That the only feelings she would have for this person would be purely for the purposes of her experience the kind of joyful sex SHE decided SHE wants.  I suppose the only way for us to determine that would be engage in the necessary communication associated with leading up to it.  I would need for her to know that if it were to happen, how important that would be to me.  

It's clearly none of my business how other couples live their, and please @mstara, don't think I am being judgmental by saying this, but if I were to know that my Mistress Wife felt about her hypothetical poly-friend, the way you described you do about yours ... I'd be crushed.  Clearly, wanting to live on that razor thin edge of this two sided knife is exhilarating.  The ability for a couple to happily exist on that same edge requires advanced adult behavior to help ensure that balance exists to do just that.  I so very much respect and admire the particular women that understand the need for that balance, and place a high importance to it.  Within the walls of this blog, those women are Emma, you, and Ruined_Julie.  I have equal respect and admiration for their respective men as well.

Thanks for listening.

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Posted : 30/08/2020 5:37 am
Vikter liked
jd
 jd
(@jd)
Eminent Member

@subhubphx

I think you make the points or pose questions about seeing things from the “jealous” perspective of the men involved, of  “being crushed,” of losing some of “her heart” quite eloquently, gently, respectfully and less judgmental than I ever could and than I have done. Thanks. I can certainly see a strange possessiveness in my previously written posted (jealous for others). A lot is written about male insecurity at the root of the cuckolding desire or fetish, and that in eroticizing the insecurity the relationship that includes the return of the woman to the man and reassurance she still loves and desires him despite this relationship with another. I may be wrong Subhub, but I almost think I hear you saying that you what you desire is for your wife to have the sexual confidence and to know she has the freedom to pursue another relationship, physical or not, and In the end to choose not to do so. In terms of reassuring anxieties and reducing insecurity this might be more complete than the departure and return. Just a thought from an outsider.  

JD

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Posted : 30/08/2020 6:17 am
subhubphx liked
subhubphx
(@subhubphx)
Honorable Member
Posted by: @jd

I may be wrong Subhub, but I almost think I hear you saying that you what you desire is for your wife to have the sexual confidence and to know she has the freedom to pursue another relationship, physical or not, and In the end to choose not to do so.

You may very well be right.  Assuming for discussion that her sexual confidence rises to that occasion (her freedom to do so is already a foregone conclusion), and without trying to slice the baloney too thin, I think my desire exists mostly in hoping she would have a sexual relationship that somehow did not also include a non-sexual relationship.  A unicorn perhaps.

Thank you for the kind words @jd.  I really enjoy and value your posts/comments and opinions.

 

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Posted : 30/08/2020 6:25 am
mstara
(@mstara)
Estimable Member
Posted by: @subhubphx

@mstara

He sounds like "live happily ever after, Prince Charming, husband" material.

It's clearly none of my business how other couples live their, and please @mstara, don't think I am being judgmental by saying this, but if I were to know that my Mistress Wife felt about her hypothetical poly-friend, the way you described you do about yours ... I'd be crushed.

I did say that it was difficult to describe the attraction that this man has for me, perhaps the bit I failed to articulate was that he has such an easy charm that he is dangerous. Not in a violent way but because he could have anyone he wanted. I'm afraid that I'm still not articulating this very well, but he's a bit like James Bond in that he's very desirable but you know you could never own him. 

My husband, Martin, and I have discussed this. He knows the effect that this man has on me, but he is also very aware that I wouldn't trade him for anyone else. When I spoke to him about your comments he said that it was a bit like owning an F1 car - fun to play with occasionally but you wouldn't want to drive it everyday.

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Posted : 30/08/2020 9:15 am
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