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HappyCuckold
(@happycuckold)
Trusted Member

@steph I feel a bit sheepish about occupying so much space on Emma’s website—I hope she doesn’t mind—but I have enjoyed this conversation with you and David.  I think our conversation demonstrates the truth of that saying, “The brain is the largest sex organ.”  There is nothing that is inherently “submissive” or “demeaning” in any particular sex act; it is the way we think about particular acts that make them feel submissive or demeaning or completely egalitarian.  Take oral sex, for example.  Because I am sexually submissive by nature, I feel wonderfully submissive when I go down on my wife.  I feel like I am “serving” her. But it’s only submissive for me because I think of it that way. Giving oral sex can also feel empowering because the ability to give your partner orgasms is a wonderful power to have. Also, setting aside the feeling of submissiveness I get from cunnilingus, I enjoy it for purely sensual reasons: the scent and taste of my wife’s pussy is an aphrodisiac to me.  Therefore, I can imagine people enjoying it for reasons that have nothing to do with submission.

The same thing is true of enforced chastity.  I am pretty sure lots of people would think it is demeaning for a wife to lock her husband’s penis in a cage to control his access to orgasms.  And one might think that any man who submits to it must be super submissive.  My wife isn’t interested in chastity cages, but I am envious of the guys here who are locked up because I imagine how amazingly submissive that would make me feel.  Yet you and David see enforced chastity as a purely practical way of enhancing your lovemaking that has nothing to do with domination and submission.  And the thing is, if it doesn’t feel submissive to David, it *isn’t* submissive for him.  

Likewise, whether acts of submission are seen as “demeaning” or “degrading” is entirely in one’s head.  You say David thinks it is “demeaning” to Kevin when Emma makes him kneel in front of her to masturbate.  I agree with David that kneeling is a symbolic expression of submission, but I don’t see anything demeaning or degrading about it.  David also thinks that Emma making Kevin masturbate instead of allowing him to cum through physical contact with her shows a lack love.  I disagree.  It is only the way David thinks about it that makes it so. For most people, masturbation is one of the most secret parts of life.  Most married people do it at least occasionally, but they do it surreptitiously because they would feel ashamed if their partner knew.  Therefore, masturbating in front of one’s partner can feel deeply intimate and liberating.  

You have said that you feel like you don’t don’t fit in here because you and David may be too vanilla.  But I don’t see you as vanilla at all.  I see your relationship with David—and your inter-couple relationship with John and Jane—as deliciously kinky.  On the issue of cuckolding, you are vanilla compared to Emma and Kevin (or my wife and me). But even there you aren’t completely vanilla because your erotic interaction with John has a subtle cuckolding vibe to it. And concerning certain kinks that other FLR couples are into, like spanking and discipline, you and Emma could both be seen as vanilla. There are so many varieties of kink!

Maybe I should shut up now.  Lol

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Posted : 21/09/2021 6:49 am
Steph
(@steph)
Estimable Member

@happycuckold I have enjoyed talking with you also.  I must say you open my mind to different ways of thinking about relationships.  I never thought of us as being at all kinky except for what we do with Jane and John and that is just one special couple so I never thought about us as kinky.  At home we are your average husband and wife....that is until you made me think about it.

Dave's concern for a lack of love when Kevin had to masturbate was not the masturbation.  It was that Emma made him do it without her touching him in any way.  Dave sees touching as so important.  He can instantly tell my every mood by the way I touch his arm or shoulder.  Even when we experimented in the early years with orgasms outside the vagina, I always was touching him in a very loving manner.  To him touching says more than any words ever could.  I think that is why he looks at me for my approval when Jane plays with him and he has to touch her in a sexual way.  When we make love the two weeks between his releases he gives me multiple orgasms with both his tongue and fingers but I think what makes him feel he is loved in these sessions is the way I caress his back and face through out.  I play some with his caged penis but it is the sensual touching that tells him I love him.

You are so right.  Sex is as much about the brain as the body.  Take Dave.  Who else would think that touching his face means more than playing with his little boy parts.

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Posted : 21/09/2021 1:35 pm
Steph
(@steph)
Estimable Member

Dave asked me to write about our talk tonight so that Jane would know everything will be okay. 

This isn’t really about our poly-friending or flirting depending on what you call it.  It is about Jane and John though so I am putting it in this topic.  I think Jane will look for it here.

Jane’s mother succumbed to her cancer about 2 weeks ago.  Jane is mostly back to her normal life.  She called me today to tell me that they browse lots of porn and chastity sites.  They got back to doing that the other night.  They often look at this site because they like Emma’s blogs and they check some of the posts.  She was calling to say they just saw where we had posted several topics.  She could tell that Dave had some concerns about people knowing some difficult things about him.  She said that she or John might slip and say something that they would only know by reading it here and she was afraid it would upset Dave.

Jane laughed a little when she said, “I love making him squirm when I tease and torment him but I never want to embarrass him in a way that would hurt him.”

I talked to Dave tonight and told him what Jane said.  He was kind of nervous but I reminded him of how much better he felt letting go of his fears to strangers.  I told him these were his best friends who actually care about him.  Someone you can confide in and they will have understanding and compassion.  Dave thought about it for a moment and said, “You are right as usual.  Maybe it is good.  Maybe it is time to be honest with them.” 

Jane and John Doe (still dumb aliases for our best friends)  are coming over this Saturday night.   Jane said to leave a note at the site if I thought there would be any subjects that had to be avoided and they would check this site before they came over.  I think there will be more talking than games and playing.  Talking about what is comfortable for Dave and of course I am sure Jane will still need to vent some.  Just an evening to get back together.

Now that we have opened this can of worms I will try to update on our activities as time goes on.

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Posted : 30/09/2021 5:09 pm
Steph
(@steph)
Estimable Member

This was quite a weekend.  It was good to get together with Jane and John.  I called them Saturday afternoon and told them Dave was going to do steaks on the grill, probably last grill out of the year.  Said we could do Euro style and eat about 7:30 if they wanted to join us.  Jane thought it was a great idea.

When they got here, Dave offered Jane his condolences and she thanked him and indicated she was doing okay and she didn’t talk about her mother at all.  During supper we just chatted.  Nothing in particular.  John talked about a big project he was working on at work.  It was nice to just catch up.  After we ate we sat in the family room and chatted some more.  I noticed that John was holding Jane’s hand almost all the time and sometimes would caress her back  I think he knew she wasn’t quite okay yet and he was trying to be there for her in a quiet subtle kind of way.  It made me smile. 

We had been chatting for about half an hour and Jane turned to Dave and asked him, “Are you really okay talking about anything and everything?”  Dave surprised me a little.  In a very confident voice he said, “Yes.  Do you have some questions?”  Jane said it wasn’t really a question.  She just wanted to say that his super long arms were always a turn on for her but she never said anything because she knew he was sensitive about his looks.  She said she told John one night that I was so lucky because Dave could hug me and pinch my nipples at the same time.  We all laughed.

Then Dave said, “I’ve never actually tried that.”  He came over to me and told me to stand up and he hugged me.  It was hard to squeeze his hands between my breast and his chest but he did it and he pinched my nipples through my blouse and bra.  I couldn’t stop laughing.  It was not the least bit romantic but it was funny.  Then Jane said, “Let me try it.”  She proceeded to pull her top off and as usual she had no bra on.  She came over to Dave and I told Dave “to have at it.”  Jane is a little more petite than I am and Dave had no problem hugging her and grabbing her breasts and they were both giggling like little kids.  After they separated Jane said, “That is just too weird.  It is like he is hugging you from in front and behind at the same time.”  She put her top back on and we all sat back down. 

Then John asked the biggie.  He wanted to know if we figured out what Dave’s “episodes” were all about.  Dave said not really.  He said he just knows that once in a while he feels like I am doing everything in our marriage and he is doing nothing.  He said that  I am so beautiful, strong, confident, and loving and he is just an ugly geek.  He said, “I’ll feel like I did in high school.  I feel like I don’t deserve someone like her and she must be frustrated because she gives me everything and I give her nothing.”  Then he said, “I need her to hurt me.  I need her to take out all her frustrations on me.”  He paused for a few seconds and the room was silent.  Then he said, “Well look at her!  Look at me!”  At this point Dave looked like he was going to have an episode.  I was very nervous.  Then Jane went over to Dave, took his hand and quietly said, “Dave, I talk to Stephanie all the time.  You are an amazing man.  I have never seen anyone who felt so loved all the time in all my life as Stephanie.”  Dave smiled and asked, “Do you think so?”   Jane said, “I know so.   That is why I am so jealous of her and the way you show her your love.”  She kissed his cheek and then she went back and sat down next to John again.

Whenever I have tried to tell Dave that when he is down on himself he accuses me of not respecting his feelings.   Jane tells him and it’s fine.   He perks right up.  Go figure.

We went back to just catching up and had another drink.  Dave said he had a treat for them for breakfast.  He made a huge frittata with lots of bacon and extra cheese.  All he has to do is bake it for about 20 minutes in the morning.  We gabbed some more and the next thing we knew it was almost midnight. 

Jane said she read in our posts about the games we play.  She said someone replied that it got us all turned on for the sex when we went to bed.  She said, “He is right.”  She went on that the way she and John make love after one of our sessions is much different than normal and really hot.  She said John shoots his load in the first two minutes and we get that out of the way.  Then they spend about a half hour snuggling and petting till John can get hard again.  After that it will be two hours or more, basically till she gets exhausted, of John making love to her every way imaginable.  She said she will get at least a half dozen orgasms and John will leak some but he doesn’t get another orgasm.  He shot his load in the beginning.  Then she went over to her big purse and pulled out a strap on with what looked like about an eight inch dildo.  She said I can’t forget to take “The Boss” upstairs with us.  She said about half way through she pegs the hell out of him and he really leaks then.  Then she looked at me and with a straight face asked me, “wouldn’t it be great if there was some way you could peg him while he was screwing you?  What kind of sensation would that be?”  She had only had three drinks all night but she was pretty wound. 

Then she said, “I really need that tonight.”  She asked if we could play a little to get really turned on.  She said she wanted Dave and her to undress each other real sexy like and John and me to do the same.  I looked at Dave and he was smiling and I said fine.  It took about ten minutes for everyone to be naked.  Jane handed me John’s key from her purse and slipped my necklace off of me.  We unlocked the boys and I started to give Jane the key back and she said, “You need to find a safe place to keep that till the next time we play.”  I thought John was going to s*** a brick.  He said that won’t be for a couple weeks.  Jane said just kidding honey.  Then she said, “but it is Locktober isn’t it?”  John said we aren’t doing Locktober.  Jane just smiled.  I set the key on the table. 

Dave was magnificent in bed.  This was his Saturday for an “O” and he made love to me so sweetly for a long time.  He gave me an oral and then he masturbated me.  Then I rolled up on him and mounted him.  I  told him to be still and to caress me and give me that special feeling.  It only took a couple of minutes and I got that gentle rush and he held me so tight for several minutes.  We snuggled for a while and talked about the evening.  I wanted so much to know why Jane could change his feelings and I’m not allowed to but I didn’t dare ask.  Then I went down on him and got him to the edge and came up and mounted him and when I got to the edge I thrusted a couple of strokes and we both had an amazing “O.”  We snuggled and then I had him rub my breasts and my butt and then pushed him down for one last oral.  We had our final kiss and I curled up to go to sleep in his arms.  It was after two by now and I could hear Jane and John still going in the other room. 

Dave and I got up about nine thirty this morning after a real nice snuggle session.  We came downstairs and Jane and John had left their clothes right there on the floor where they came off.  We just left them.  Dave turned on the oven to heat up the frittata.  About ten o’clock Jane and John came down in just their bath towels and calmly got dressed there in the family room.  Our floor plan is totally open from the kitchen to the family room so we talked while they dressed just as if it was normal. 

They came over to the table and sat down and John was either holding her hand or caressing her back most of the time till Dave had the breakfast served.  We all talked about how good it was to get back together and to play a little.  I handed Jane the key and she said they won’t need that till the end of the month.  John looked distressed to say the least.  I think the longest John has gone is a week and that was just during the five or six weeks when Jane was at her mother’s and he only got to see her when he went up on weekends.  After breakfast Jane put his key in her purse and laughed and told John it is fun to play with your little brain once in a while.  Then she said, “I really needed last night.”  Dave said he’d take care of cleaning up if we wanted to talk.  John said he would help but Dave said, “No I think Jane might need you to hold her hand if they are going to talk.”  Dave was right.  Jane finally was ready to talk about how much she missed her mother.  How they used to talk for an hour or so three or four times a week. And she talked about some of the memories she had with her mother.  Finally she said, “I never told you thank you for being there.  I don’t know if I could have made it through those last hours by myself.  Thank you.”  All I could say was, “You are my best friend.  Where else would I be?”  Jane started to cry and John went from caressing her back to holding her tight.  Then I remembered what Jane told Dave last night and I said, “Jane, you don’t have a reason in the world to be jealous of me.”  She looked at John and gave him a huge kiss.  Dave came over to me and gave me a little kiss and whispered in my ear, “This is why I love you so much.” 

When Jane got her composure back she asked if I would like to just browse the mall for a while.  She said the guys can watch a game or whatever and we can just catch up by ourselves.  We went to the mall.  I bought a couple little things but mostly we just talked and Jane reminisced a bit and by the time we went back to the house she was actually okay.  She went over to John and kissed him and said, “Thank you for putting up with me through all this.”  John said, “I wasn’t putting up with anything.  I was just telling you I love you.”  When I heard that I almost cried.  Any woman who thinks men are not as caring and loving as women needs to meet our men. 

The Eagles played the early game today and I wasn’t there to hold Dave’s hand for the whole game.  The Eagles lost.  They aren’t having a very good year so far.

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Posted : 03/10/2021 1:41 pm
joebear liked
subhubphx
(@subhubphx)
Honorable Member

This has become quite the the odyssey and it is interesting, although not unexpected how things are evolving.  I'll make a prediction that might appear obvious for others, but soon we'll be reading about how Steph has cucked Dave with John during an upcoming get together with the four of you.  Likely something along the lines of Jane will prepare John by assisting with him "shooting his load in the first two minutes", you know, to get that out of the way, and then present the fully prepared to Steph for her use and enjoyment over the next "two hours".  In return, Jane will accept the use of Dave's unique and loving services and lovingly dominant him for their mutual benefit and enjoyment.   Could I be close?

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Posted : 04/10/2021 5:55 am
Steph
(@steph)
Estimable Member

@subhubphx I am 100% sure that will not happen.  I enjoy the touching by John and have no problem with the nudity.  Moving to actual PIV or even oral sex with anyone other than Dave will not happen.  Yes we have evolved a great deal in the last four years and our play has gotten very sexual.  That is one reason why we sat down one night together and established our red line.  We all respect each other too much to ever cross that line.  No PIV.  No oral sex.  No orgasms by a non-mate.  Nothing passionate that would cause an emotionally intimate connection between non-partners.   No play without all people together.  We all agree the relationships come ahead of all play.  We are all comfortable about speaking up if something becomes uncomfortable and that concern WILL be honored.

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Posted : 04/10/2021 2:00 pm
subhubphx
(@subhubphx)
Honorable Member
Posted by: @steph

@subhubphx I am 100% sure that will not happen.  I enjoy the touching by John and have no problem with the nudity.  Moving to actual PIV or even oral sex with anyone other than Dave will not happen.  Yes we have evolved a great deal in the last four years and our play has gotten very sexual.  That is one reason why we sat down one night together and established our red line.  We all respect each other too much to ever cross that line.  No PIV.  No oral sex.  No orgasms by a non-mate.  Nothing passionate that would cause an emotionally intimate connection between non-partners.   No play without all people together.  We all agree the relationships come ahead of all play.  We are all comfortable about speaking up if something becomes uncomfortable and that concern WILL be honored.

Yep!  Not rooting for or against anything, or judging in any manner.  Your beautiful life is enviable.  

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Posted : 05/10/2021 6:17 am
Steph
(@steph)
Estimable Member

@subhubphx

I realize we are playing a little bit with fire.  As Emma points out all the time regarding anything to do with multiple participants, the most important thing is communication.

The aspect of our red line that is most vulnerable is making sure that no emotional bonds beyond friendship are formed.  We all recognize that is something that can sneak up on you.  We all have to be very aware of our feelings and if we start to feel something more special or intimate we will have to be honest with ourselves and call a halt.  So far that has not been a problem.  We stay away from things like hand holding or passionate kissing and hugging.  We try to keep it all playful and a little sexy but not sensual if that makes any sense.

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Posted : 05/10/2021 4:02 pm
subhubphx liked
subhubphx
(@subhubphx)
Honorable Member
Posted by: @steph

As Emma points out all the time regarding anything to do with multiple participants, the most important thing is communication.

Indeed it is Steph!  Keep communicating and keep the safety of your love and heart close so it can be protected.  Also keep an eye on that red line.  Just because you and Dave have established where it belongs in the past, it should also be portable enough to move with your feelings after communication.  Best to you both!

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Posted : 05/10/2021 4:50 pm
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