How I See a Relationship

Good read, Stephanie. You organized your thoughts very well here, making solid points along the way.

As My wife and I are new to the chastity part, I appreciate the different view on it. 
i also find your poly friending play very interesting. You have found a way to have fun within your boundaries. 

Perhaps a more accurate title to the post would be "How I see MY relationship".

@subhubphx

I did say in the controversial topics such as Orgasms, FLR vs Dominance, and Chastity that these were what worked for us and implied there may be other valid options. 

I am sorry you found nothing of value or that translated to your relationship in the remaining topics.  I will stand by my post that communication, friendship, love, respect, needs, etc. are all critical in any long term relationship and I believe that what I said about them generally applies.

I would be interested to know what you feel is important in a relationship.  You apparently see the things that make a relationship strong and lasting far differently than I do.   

Posted by: @steph

I did say in the controversial topics such as Orgasms, FLR vs Dominance, and Chastity that these were what worked for us and implied there may be other valid options. 

Yes you did and I don't any problems with what you do or don't do in your relationship

Posted by: @steph

I will stand by my post that communication, friendship, love, respect, needs, etc. are all critical in any long term relationship and I believe that what I said about them generally applies.

I don't think any reasonable person would disagree with your feelings on this.  I certainly

Posted by: @steph

You apparently see the things that make a relationship strong and lasting far differently than I do.   

I don't where you got this idea about me.  

(s)

@subhubphx I am sorry if I misunderstood your response.  I thought you were implying that what I wrote was applicable only to MY relationship but not to relationships of others such as your self. 

Posted by: @steph

I have been looking back at our posts and realized how much we have learned about ourselves and our relationship since I joined this site.  My posts were all written about a thought I had at a given moment so they cover a wide range of feelings.  I decided to try to glean the points of each one and make myself some notes about what we have gained here that I could talk about with Dave.  The first thing I discovered is that I babble a lot and my writing is very disjointed.  After dissecting all my posts and making lots of notes, I reaffirmed in my mind how wonderful our relationship is and how it has not only endured for twenty nine years, it has gotten better with time. 

Based on that I thought maybe I could put together a post with some thoughts on what I feel is important in a relationship.  What makes it grow instead of wither on the vine. I am talking here about love relationships such as marriage or committed girlfriend/boyfriend relationships.   I decided to steal Emma’s technique of compartmentalizing subjects to try to make it better organized and more readable. Bear in mind that though I have a degree in psychology I am not a relationship coach by any stretch of the imagination.  This is based solely on what has worked for us for all these years.  Not everything that has worked for us may apply to others.  Also, we are not in a true dominatrix submissive relationship so some things may be very different for you.

So this is what I have put together over the past couple of days.

 

COMMUNICATION

If you can’t talk and LISTEN to each other about what you want and expect out of your relationship, you don’t belong in the relationship.  It is as simple as that.  It is never going to work and one of you is always going to be disappointed or upset because you can’t expect your partner to read your mind.  When your partner says, “If you don’t know, I am not going to tell you.”  it is time to pack your bags and leave because that is a recipe for both of you being unsatisfied. 

There are some guidelines for communication that are important.  Clarity, honesty, tone, sincerity, and consistency are key.  If you send mixed messages or try to manipulate your partner to get what you want or you just confuse your partner because you are afraid to say what you really feel it is not going to end well. 

There are also rules for arguing.  Trust me there are going to be disagreements.  The keys here are several.  First if you have a problem get it out in the open early.  If it festers it just gets bigger and harder to deal with.  Second, keep it in perspective.  Is it something that is relationship threatening or is it something that just annoys you or somewhere in between?   Don’t make a mountain out of a molehill but don’t understate something that truly hurts.  Thirdly, keep the argument about the issue.  Do not bring up past problems or five other things that come to mind to show your partner everything is always their fault.  Don’t be afraid to concede or compromise.  You don’t have to win every argument.  Sometimes it might be something very important to your partner and only an annoyance to you.  Lastly, fight fair.  Do not attack your partner.  Calling your partner stupid or mean or an SOB doesn’t prove your point and it is something you can never take back.  You can’t unsay cruel words.  Your partner will remember what you called him or her forever.  Always show respect.   

 

FRIENDSHIP

I am not talking Facebook friends here.  I am talking about actual friends.  The kind of friend that when they hear you are not feeling well shows up at your door with hot soup and helps with your chores so you can rest.  Friendship should be the starting line for every relationship.  Relationships based on lust or physical beauty or any other superficial thing will not last.  Those things grow old quickly.  It is so important that you like each other as people and enjoy being together in non-sexual ways.  Most of your time together as a couple will have nothing to do with sex or how pretty or handsome you are.  It will have to do with working together to keep the household running or possibly raising children and hopefully often just doing fun things together.  If your mate is also your best friend you have cleared the first and one of the biggest hurdles in the marathon that is a lasting relationship.

 

LOVE

As I said, I am talking about romantic and sexual relationships such as marriage or committed girlfriend/boyfriend.  Love rather than lust is a requirement for such an endeavor.  The problem is how do you know when it is love and when it is infatuation.  How do you even define love?  Is it butterflies in the stomach when you are together?  Is it feeling blue when you are not together?   Does your heart race when you kiss or touch?  All these things or none of them may be part of being in love.  It depends on the person.  The way I know I am in love with Dave and he is in love with me is pretty simple.  We both always put the other one ahead of our self.  I care more about how Dave is feeling at any given moment than I care about how I feel.  Dave feels the same way about me.  You can come up with your own measuring stick to tell if you are in love, but I truly believe if you can honestly say that your partner is more important than you are, you are in love. 

 

MUTUAL RESPECT

Essential.  What else is there to say about it. 

 

BEING ATTENTIVE TO YOUR PARTNER

This comes up in almost every blog Emma writes.  It lets you know you are important to your mate.  If your partner ignores you occasionally to watch a ballgame or to go shopping with her girlfriends that is okay.  Nobody is going to think about their partner one hundred percent of the time.  Do you want that your partner doesn’t have a life?  I think not.  Smothering each other is not a good thing.  That said, if your partner is not conscious of you when you are together, if your partner doesn’t want to talk to you or do things with you there is a big problem.  Your mate should also know things you enjoy and want to do them with you and I don’t just mean on your birthday or when he or she wants something from you.  I mean daily.  It should be part of your everyday routine to spend time enjoying each other’s company.  You should want to do things that make your partner smile.  You need to take time to learn about your mate so you can appreciate her or him to the fullest during your time together.  In today’s fast paced, high stress world; making time for each other is even more important than ever.  Some days it is the only way your partner may get to feel appreciated and loved. Both partners need to say “I love you” and touch and hug their mate often.   Don’t get lazy and take each other for granted.  If you do you will slowly and painfully drift apart.  Sort of like the song, “You Don’t Bring Me Flowers Anymore.”

 

THE LITTLE THINGS

This subject goes hand in hand with being attentive.  It deserves its own space because these are the things that go above and beyond.  They say I was thinking about you when I was out today.  They sometimes say I remembered you mentioned this a few weeks ago or I saw this and it made me think of you.  The little things are when you do something special out of the blue just to see your partner smile or to make their day when they might be a little down.  It can be surprising them with a little gift or just taking time to do something special or unique for them.  In our case Dave does lots of little things.  He still will stop along the road sometimes and pick wild flowers to bring home to me the way he did back when we couldn’t afford real flowers.  He gets me those now too but the wild flowers are special.  Not long ago he surprised me with tickets to the Beatles tribute band show and a crazy evening.  I do silly little things for him like squeeze his hand when he is watching the Eagles game on all the big plays to bring them luck.  It is Being attentive multiplied several fold.  It says, “Yes, I think about you even when I’m not with you.”  Nothing bad happens if you don’t do this.  But do little special things and you make your partner’s day. 

 

NEEDS

Everybody needs food, clothing, and shelter.  These things have little to do with the relationship.  Relationship NEEDS are emotional.  Making your partner feel loved and maintaining their self-esteem are crucial.  After all, love is why you are in this relationship in the first place.  Self-esteem can be a fragile thing.  Every day people will try to tear you down, be it your boss or a faux friend or a jealous co-worker.  When you feel like a piece of s*** you are not going to be much of a partner.  Just a simple compliment or word of praise or even just an “I love you” from your partner can make you feel good about yourself again.  If your partner regularly berates you and tells you about your inadequacies and shortcomings your sense of self-worth disappears. Someone who feels unloved or has no self-esteem has no love or energy to give back to you.  Based on my experience with the abuse victims support group they might even consider suicide if their self-esteem is totally destroyed.  If you want to have a relationship that is vibrant and loving and your partner feels unloved and worthless it is not going to happen.  Making sure that your mate feels loved and good about them self is truly a need.   Tell your partner you love him or her and say something positive to them daily.  It only takes a moment and can make your partner feel good for hours.

 

WANTS

Wants are not needs.  If your needs are met you can survive.  Maybe even have a minimum level of happiness.  Is survival really what you want for your best friend and the one you love?  I am not talking about material things.  Yes, I would like a Lamborghini but that is not happening.  I am talking about the intangibles here.  The little things that make you feel more than okay.  The things that make you feel special.  Things that make you feel a little more loved.  These things are different for everyone but what they all have in common is  they say your partner cares just a little more.  He or she knows what makes you tick and wants you to be happy.  Obviously not all wants can be met all the time for any number of reasons including life getting in the way.  But if you can fulfill as many of your mate’s relationship wants as possible your partner is going to reciprocate and you both end up a little happier.  Wants may not be at the level of needs but they are important.

   

ORGASMS

Are orgasms wants or needs?  It totally depends on the person.  For Dave and me they are a need.  If either of us was totally denied I believe our relationship would suffer immeasurably.  For some people the orgasm is no more than a want.  It is nice and they like it but they can go without it for long periods of time.  For a few, the orgasm isn’t even desired.  I believe there are more asexual women than men and in a very few cases these people actually are repulsed by sex.  Then there are some such as there may be at this site that actually crave to be denied an orgasm forever even though at one time they liked them.  So how do we make a general statement about where the orgasm fits into a relationship.  We can’t. 

It can be a problem if one partner has a high sex drive and the other has practically none.  In these cases communication becomes paramount.  How does the high libido get the satisfaction that partner desires without hurting his or her mate?  Does the person do without or just masturbate or have the partner provide an orgasm for him or her or possibly involve a third person?  A difficult situation but if the couple loves each other and they can talk about it, they can find a way. 

How should orgasms happen in a loving relationship?  Again there is probably no right way.  Communication about this is critical.   It has to work for both of you.  Men want to be great lovers and please their woman.  They are taught via porn or social media or social convention that means giving her an orgasm.  Emma makes it clear that a woman wants more than an orgasm from her mate.  She wants intimacy and bonding.  Yes, sometimes she may just want the high but with her partner she wants “the more.”  I and Dave strongly believe that it needs to involve love.  The orgasm for both men and women can be very emotional as well as physically intense.  If the orgasm is accomplished by masturbation in the shower or off by yourself it is nothing but an orgasm.   There is no emotional or bonding experience. For most men, unfortunately, it probably never becomes more than this.  If, however, sex is part of a loving relationship with a woman who wants her man to make love rather than have sex it can become something special for him.  As the relationship matures, the bonding and emotional experience becomes more important than the intense physical pleasure.  Don’t get me wrong.  The physical pleasure is still wonderful but the feeling of oneness that happens when you are able to share that moment of mutual orgasm with the one you love lasts long after the physical pleasure has waned.

Just what works for Dave and me. 

 

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SEX AND MAKING LOVE

I do not consider the terms sex and making love interchangeable.  I consider sex as recreational.  It is about the thrill and the orgasm.  There may or may not be an emotional attachment between the participants but sex is not about emotional fulfillment.  It is primarily physical.

Making love is all about the emotional fulfillment.  That doesn’t mean the physical joy is not there.  It may even be amazing. 

It may seem like the difference is negligible but in reality the subtle difference is actually very significant.  In sex, the orgasm is about yourself.  When you are making love the orgasm is about your partner.  You have all read in Emma’s blogs how the man wants to please his partner.  When it is just sex he wants to please his partner to prove his “man skills.”  When it is love making he wants to please his partner because he wants her to feel special.  The feeling that follows is vastly different.  With sex both partners feel the high of the release.  After making love the feeling is a bond that is more powerful and lasts much longer than the physical high.  The bonding feeling even happens when there is no orgasm for one or both of us.  

 

INTIMACY

I could have talked about this in any of the above subjects but it is important enough to be a subject all its own.  What intimacy brings to a relationship is impossible to overstate. Without it, waking up in the morning would be starting a ho-hum “another day another dollar day.”  With intimacy when you wake up you are excited because you are about to share another day with the one you love, even if you can’t be together all day.

We tend to think of intimacy as what happens in the bedroom.  That is probably where the dictionary definition of intimacy takes place.  I think of intimacy as more about the  emotional and less about the physical.  For me the intimacy begins when Dave walks in the door after work and we share a kiss and a hug.  It is not a passionate kiss but it is a kiss that says I missed you and I’m glad we’re back together and his touch just quietly says I love you.  At supper we talk.  It can be about anything from how was your day to where are we going for our vacation this year.  We share our fun moments of the day and the things that were hard and we listen.  In the early days, Dave would try to fix things that went wrong for me but he has learned that unless it is a broken sewing machine that needs fixing what I really want is for him to just listen and understand and care.  In the evening we might sit quietly and watch TV or something or just talk some more and he will hold my hand or caress my back.  These things for me are what intimacy is about.  These are the little things that make me want to make love when bed time comes around.  These are the little things that say I love you and you are what my world is all about.  It is not the dictionary definition of intimate contact but I can’t imagine what the bedroom would be without this subtle intimacy that happens long before the sex starts.  Mind you, I still want the love making to be about intimacy.  Slam-bam thank you mams are not permitted.  Love making has to start out as sensual and build slowly on the intimacy we shared all evening.  As the passion builds the intimacy becomes very physical but it is still about listening to your partner and showing each other how much we love each other.  It may or may not eventually result in a climax.  On nights that Dave gets no orgasm (most nights) I touch his face gently and caress his back and even though I have a great orgasm it is much more sensual for both of us and in many ways more intimate.  Can’t explain that but it is just what happens.  It isn’t always about the orgasm…..even for me.

 

FEMALE LEAD VS. DOMINANCE

This topic is strictly about what I see as how a female lead works.  I know I am in the minority here but we have been doing this for the better part of twenty nine years and it just keeps getting better.  I did have to put a great amount of emotional energy into it, mostly in the early years.  It was not a free ride by any stretch of the imagination.  Have all my needs and wants been fulfilled.  Except for the Lamborghini that would be a resounding yes.  Have all of Dave’s needs and wants been met.  All of his needs and most of his wants.

FLR makes sense.  The part of the brain that deals with emotions and compassion is larger in the woman than the man and those are the things a loving relationship are about.  A strong woman who leads in a loving way can help a man discover and express his emotions in a positive way.  He has all the same feelings and emotions.  They are just hidden away and he needs help to embrace them.

I see FLR as leading and not dominating.  There have only been two times in twenty nine years (maybe three times) I resorted to playing the FLR card and I made something happen by domination.  There are two absolute rules I follow in our FLR. 

            First I will never make me more by making Dave less.  It is making us both more than we could be on our own.

            Second it has to be what is best for the relationship.  My “wants” come after the relationship and Dave’s needs. 

I lead by salesmanship.  I do not want obedience.  I involve Dave in every aspect of our relationship and his voice is important.  I nudge and push and show him how what I want will be good for us both and when we finally do it he already believes it will be good.  The biggest things, of course, have been related to the chastity but there have been other things.  Learning to let me control the love making and making his orgasm happen when I was ready.  Making him stay engaged in making love long after the orgasm to override the post orgasm depression.  Helping him to learn about my moods and the little things that make me feel loved.  I am not sure I could have achieved these little things by ramming them down his throat and they are the things that have made these twenty nine years so beautiful.  Again this is what has worked for us and please do not take offence if you do not see FLR in the way I see it.

 

THE ROLE OF CHASTITY

I believe male chastity could improve almost any love relationship but unfortunately in most cases it won’t work because of strong, preconceived conceptions about the male/female roles and the importance of frequent orgasms. 

I will probably take some heat for this next statement but it is something I strongly believe.  I do not see chastity as the reason a man is attentive and loving to his mate.  I do not believe sexual frustration is what makes him a better husband.  Yes, these things may be an influence in how he treats his woman and if handled well can be positive.  If you both enjoy the play teasing and the frustration turns him on in a good way then it can only enhance the dynamic.  If the chastity and power exchange is what the relationship is about, the connection will grow thin in short order and the relationship will falter.  I believe the desire to be attentive and loving and wanting to help with all the chores comes long before the chastity.  He will do these things any way if the relationship has mutual communication, friendship, love, attention, and intimacy.  If the woman is not supplying these things to her mate, all the chastity in the world will not make her man want to provide them.  It all comes down to love.   Do you put your mate first in your life.  If you both do, then these things will happen for both of you.  If only one of you puts your mate first eventually the other partner will feel like nothing but a servant and his or her enthusiasm will wane.  I do not engage in sexual teasing with Dave.  We get silly sometimes but I do not want to frustrate him.  He would not enjoy that and it would adversely affect his job performance.  I try to give him attention and show him my love in other ways all the time.  He reciprocates many fold.  Even when we make love on the nights he gets no orgasm I try to show him my love with sensual touching rather than sexy touching.  He still gives me plenty of orgasms but they are much more about sensual than sexual.  

So what do I see as the role of chastity?  I see it as controlling his orgasms to take advantage of the man’s natural rhythm.  A man does not reenergize after a release the way a woman might.  His orgasm an hour later or even days later will never be as intense as the first one. By spacing them out you can actually make them more satisfying for him.  Quality tops quantity.  Chastity also allows the woman to control the love making.  It allows her to teach him to make love rather than have sex.  Once she has control she has the power to make him not see his orgasm as the end of the sexual encounter but rather as the beginning of a sensual encounter.  Instead of all those endorphins and whatever else controlling his attitude for the next days, a feeling of being loved controls him.  No post orgasm depression. 

I know this is just my opinion on a very controversial subject.  Chastity creates a reverse dynamic but it is not about the power as much as the result.  The feeling of power the woman gets is just an added perk.  (I admittedly enjoy that perk more than I should.)  It can be dangerous if she lets the power become what it is all about.

 

POLY-FRIENDING

I will use Emma’s term here because I agree that the connotation is more positive than cuckolding.  This can be a slippery slope and as Emma points out regularly, if you want to try this, honest communication is essential.  It is a fine line that separates unfaithful from sharing.  Doing it the wrong way or for the wrong reasons can destroy a relationship.  What is wrong or right will be different for every couple.  You are playing with feelings and emotions and it is very easy for one partner to feel hurt, inadequate, replaced, or unloved. 

In our play with our friends Jane and John, we have created red lines.  There is no actual sex so we do not see what we do as actual poly-friending  Basically for us it is important that no emotional bonds that go beyond friendship can be formed.  It is all play and in our case both men and both women get to play.  It has evolved over several years.  Jane tends to be the most aggressive and the one who pushes the boundaries and Dave is the most unsure and is our barometer for the limits.  We all feel we can speak up if we are uncomfortable.  We are probably playing with fire but we all understand that “we will never hurt the relationships” is the hard and fast rule.  So why do we do it?  Excitement.  Energy.  For me at least, that narcissistic feeling I get when John wants my body.  I think Dave likes that John who has a gorgeous wife thinks I am hot.  It means he managed to land a hot woman.  I also think he enjoys that Jane likes to tease and torment him.  Jane and John are naturally kinkier than we are and I think they enjoy it in a more sexual way. 

Is what we do wrong?  I am sure that there are people who would see us as sinners.  There are others who would say we are too tame to even read about.  It works for us.  We do not have any moral misgivings about what we are doing.  So we don’t care what anyone else thinks.  So it should be with any polyamorous relationships.  My only caution is make sure it is right for everyone involved and let it evolve very slowly.  Set some ground rules and don’t be afraid to talk about them and modify them as you go.  Never force your partner into something they are not comfortable with.  Enjoy.

 

WHAT QUALIFIES AS ABUSE

Not so much at this site but at some chastity/FLR sites I see what seems like abuse.  Basically abuse is anything that causes physical or mental harm.  I am very sensitive to this because I volunteer for a support group for abused women and children.  I have witnessed some horror stories and I personally knew two women and three teen girls that committed suicide.  In all those cases it was determined to be a combination of a lack of feeling loved by the people or person that should have loved them and a total loss of self-esteem and self-worth.  The teens were bullied in obvious ways but the women were also bullied but in more subtle ways by a boyfriend and a husband. 

Mental abuse can often be more deadly than physical abuse.  If you constantly demean your partner, If you show them no respect, you may be mentally abusing them.  There is a difference between playing with them in a teasing way and putting them down.  Please make sure you are aware of his reactions when you “tease” him about not being a good lover or having a small penis or anything for that matter.  He may not see it as teasing but as taking away his sense of self-worth.  The same can be said for making him do something that is humiliating.  Listen to him and listen to his tone.  Look at his body language.  He may be enjoying it or he may be afraid to disappoint you and not tell you how he really feels until it is too late.  Please watch for the subtle signs.

If you feel like I am beating this horse to death it is because this is something that is close to my heart.  I would hate to hear that a relationship here ended for any reason because one partner did not know when to draw the line or the other did not speak up.

There is nothing in your text I would disagree with, in fact much of it is good information for all couples; all couples however are not alike. Some men would like a more dominant woman, just as some women would like to be the clear leader in their relationship.