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Emma
 Emma
(@evolvingyourman_ivcr4j)
Member Admin

Stan left a comment on the blog and I figured that a forum topic would be a more appropriate place for the lengthy response. Here is the link to the original comment and the comment itself is below.

Hi Emma,

My wife and I are writing a book about “HOW” you create newness and keep the sexual aspect of your MONOGOMOUS relationship exciting “for a lifetime”.

That is wonderful, we chose to explore nonmonogamy and I think either option is wonderful. Admittedly it took quite some time for me to open my mind to the idea of nonmonogamy and it also took the perfect set of circumstances. Had the pandemic and subsequent lockdown happened, I don't know if we would have ever embraced it in the way we did. We truly jumped in head first.

We have shared pegging experiences and I think they are valuable. I wanted a good female explanation of what’s in it for the female, what’s in it for the man, and the emotional component. That’s how I found your blog and articles. You did an excellent job with your analysis and your articles are well thought out.

Thank you so much. I am glad that my perspective was valuable. 

We’ve had 37 years to evolve our relationship. We are open to anything… that doesn’t involve being with other people. That doesn’t make us unadventurous, that makes us smart!

That is totally fine for you and I understand completely. I also understand that bringing other people into a relationship is an incredible experience for some. The context of the third person is important and open communication is important as well. 

The good thing I see about your relationship is that none of you are married. I say it’s a good thing because if you were married, statistically, once you open the marriage to hot wife, cuckolding, or Femdom, the relationship will last less than 5 years. Just google how many open marriages survive. The statistics are compelling against it, and yet people keep trying it.

I'd imagine that it would be difficult to find a statistically accurate way to track the success of relationships of each type. Many couples choose to open their relationship after they are already troubled which is a recipe for disaster. That sort of thing would likely skew your statistics. As you write your book and locate those statistics, I'd love to see what you find.

Emma stated ~ I love the well-thought-out opposing viewpoints. Without mixing things up with a different partner, how can you regain those feelings of newness? The thought isn’t to find a new permanent partner with the expectation of having the newness last forever, the thought is to supplement an amazing relationship with torrid sexual encounters when the opportunity presents itself. Have an openness to your marriage and rather than limit yourself “I can’t, I’m married”, consider that perhaps you can. With proper communication of course.

Stan states ~ “No you don’t love the well thought out viewpoints!” You want everyone who posts to agree with you. If they don’t you subtly tell them “you’re right and they’re wrong”. Emma dear, you didn’t invent open relationships.They’ve been failing for as long as you’ve been alive.It just doesn’t work “in a marriage”.
In a relationship between singles, where a person can walk away when they get tired of it, it might work for a while but statistics say those relationships almost NEVER lead to a long term commitment or marriage.

Hmm. No, that's not true at all. I really do like to learn about different opinions and about what works for different couples. My relationship isn't the "right" way to do it, it is simply the way that Kev and I chose to do it. I try not to be overly prescriptive since I am fully aware that one size absolutely does not fit all. I certainly did not invent open relationships nor did I purport to do so. I hope I am not giving off the "I'm right and you're wrong" vibe because I certainly don't feel that way.

How can you regain those feelings of newness? With the biggest sex organ you have… your brain! You can fantasize cuckold scenarios, you can play in different places, try all different size cocks ~ you sure have a collection for Kevin, anything you want you can fantasize. It has the same impact on your brain as actually doing it. Hismith makes a great fucking machine if you want both of you hands free for the event.

100%

Oh my goodness, I just looked up the machine that you mentioned.  

I would love to see a post from Kevin relating his experience when you had Andrew join you while you pegged Kevin. From the way you described it you didn’t ask Kevin how he felt about sharing that event that was previously so personal and private between you two. I’d also like to hear how he felt when you had piv sex with Andrew after pegging Kevin and leaving him locked without orgasm.

Kev did start writing one and I haven't finished editing it. I have a bazillion unfinished blogs that I need to post. My powers to initiate are wonderful by my follow-through is lackluster. 

The reason I’m curious is in other blogs I’ve read on Reddit and others, the beta stated that was really the beginning of the end of the relationship for them. When the mistress begins getting nearly all piv sex from her lover while mostly pegging her beta, the beta starts to feel unneeded and unloved. True or not, those are the reported feelings… and that begins the decent of the relationship.

Kev and I have PIV sex frequently and I also have PIV sex with Andrew. I also do not call Kev or anyone else a beta. I think the dynamic is far more complex than that.

Ask yourself this? If Kevin came to you and asked to put all of this away, remove the cock cage, give up the other lovers, and return to a monogamous equality of partners relationship, would you? The answer will tell you where Kevin stands. My impression after reading your articles is that you wouldn’t. You’ve lost respect for Kevin. Andrew is your “man” for the time being and Kevin is becoming more and more your girlfriend. When Andrew goes you’ll find another “man” and eventually Kevin will go.

You are correct, I would not. I feel like the cage and retention add to the equality of our relationship. The cage may go away but I would ask Kev to continue with orgasm rationing to aid in the intimate connection that we share. Andrew is staying with us for a time, and plans to move later this month or possibly early March so he is a temporary resident in our lives. We will miss him greatly but he was never an equal third in our relationship. From the onset, we were all very clear on what the relationship roles would be and we communicate openly about feelings and about happiness.

Statistically speaking, FLRs in marriage have as much success as conventional MLR… about 50%.
It’s when FLR becomes FEMDOM with cuckolding that the troubles arise. Only about 5% of these relationships survive 5 years.

I do question the statistics as I've tried to find reputable statistics on my own and failed miserably. I'd love to see what you come up with and I'll buy a copy of your book and review it when released. Keep us updated!

I wish you luck and will check back in the future to see if you’re still here.

Good Luck!

Thank you so much, I appreciate the feedback. I hate that you may have gotten the wrong impression of me and I hope that you engage with my responses. In any case, it takes courage to write a book and I wish you and your wife all of the best.

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Topic starter Posted : 11/02/2021 8:54 am
dharmaproject
(@dharmaproject)
Eminent Member

The one thing that I hear the most about kink play is that “there’s no one true or right way.” I have yet to hear a professional or respected leader that participates in this lifestyle say that in order to be (blank) you have to (blank). 

A few years ago, I was a leader at my church. Basically I was responsible for all the non-religious things and got to hear everyone’s complaints or ideas on how we should be doing things. Everything from the brand of coffee we used after church, how tables and chairs were set up in the hall, how the bulletins were folded, etc. The one thing that I had to constantly remind myself was that everyone wanted what’s best for the church as a whole and they thought that their idea was what was best. 

Stan’s comments clearly show that he believes that his way is the best way for not just his marriage, but for all marriages. He clearly has passion for his belief and has some some research. Like Emma, I have my doubts on the validity, sample size, and interpretation of his findings but that is okay. He can say that his is the one true way. He can believe that. There are millions of people that believe that once you get married then any sexual interactions with someone who isn’t your spouse is wrong. Good for them. Some people believe in only eating the same thing for dinner, every day too. 

On the other hand, there are those of us who believe differently. We believe that opening our bedroom activities to other people can be fun, enjoyable, and insightful. There are those of us who believe that a chastity cage and retention is a wonderful thing. Finally there are those of us who want to go to the casino buffet of sexual activity and eat something from every section. 

Stan is one of those people who thinks that there is one true way and his way is the best. That is his right but I prefer to believe that there is no one true way and that as long as there is open communication, consenting adults should decide what works for them. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 12/02/2021 7:08 am
subhubphx
(@subhubphx)
Reputable Member

@dharmaproject

Very very nicely said!

ReplyQuote
Posted : 12/02/2021 7:35 am
lukewarmfusion
(@lukewarmfusion)
Active Member

@emma You have such a diplomatic and measured approach to responding to criticisms (and trolls, when they appear). It's nice to see that in such an otherwise heated and contentious environment these days.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 12/02/2021 1:34 pm
HappyCuckold, Emma, James52 and 1 people liked
Emma
 Emma
(@evolvingyourman_ivcr4j)
Member Admin

Thanks all. People hold relationships near and dear to their hearts so something that goes against the social norm can provoke some very strong emotions. I get it! I am not saying that Stan is a troll but even when trolls show up and have an immediate tone to their posts, I don't immediately jump to the conclusion that their opinion is invalid. In fact, if they are upset they probably are seeing a contradiction to something that they hold near and dear to their heart.

I am a firm believer that we can learn from each other and am genuinely hopeful that Stan responds because I think there is value to his opinions. I'm interested in hearing more about the book as well.

I appreciate and ❤️ all of you, even if we disagree on certain things!

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 12/02/2021 2:53 pm
HappyCuckold
(@happycuckold)
Eminent Member

@evolvingyourman_ivcr4j. You have done a great job responding to Stan.  I think it is useful to engage with his arguments because a lot of people agree with him.

 I don’t think it is possible to make a statistical case about the failure rate of polyamorous FLR’s because there are no accurate statistics about how many of us have such relationships. We tend not to tell everyone about it.

From a purely masculine point of view, I can understand how statistics about women’s sexual preferences can contribute to insecurity about a desire for FLR.  I think there are clear statistics from surveys of sexual attitudes showing that a majority of women don’t find male submissiveness attractive. “Most” is the important word.  Most don’t.  But some do.  For me, what most women want doesn’t matter.  All that matters to me is what my wife wants.

Stan is probably right that when a man in a vanilla marriage pushes the idea of FLR, especially polyamorous FLR, on a reluctant wife, he may well be putting his marriage at risk.  If the woman herself doesn’t want that kind of relationship, the husband who opens the door to sexual freedom to his partner may be opening the door for her simply replacing him.  But some of us know by experience that it is possible for non traditional relationships to flourish when the right woman is matched with the right man. Stan’s argument seems to imply that women who want what you want don’t really exist. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 13/02/2021 7:51 am
Emma
 Emma
(@evolvingyourman_ivcr4j)
Member Admin
Posted by: @happycuckold

For me, what most women want doesn’t matter.  All that matters to me is what my wife wants.

I love this <3 <3 <3

Stan is probably right that when a man in a vanilla marriage pushes the idea of FLR, especially polyamorous FLR, on a reluctant wife, he may well be putting his marriage at risk.  If the woman herself doesn’t want that kind of relationship, the husband who opens the door to sexual freedom to his partner may be opening the door for her simply replacing him.  But some of us know by experience that it is possible for non traditional relationships to flourish when the right woman is matched with the right man. Stan’s argument seems to imply that women who want what you want don’t really exist. 

I think pushing anything on anyone is a bad idea. If you want something, you should always tell your partner. If she likes it and it sticks, great! If she doesn't continue trying things until you find something that sticks for both of you. The key is finding something that serves both of you. Kev and I try everything and sometimes things stick, sometimes they don't. Sometimes they stick for a while and then we grow weary of them. Sometimes we try something and want to like it but can't take it seriously (spanking for example). 

Your first sentence summed everything up. Your relationship is about the two of you and nobody else. Do what works and get rid of anything that doesn't work for you. If one of you absolutely needs something that the other refuses to do, figure a way to work it out somehow or end the relationship because it will undoubtedly cause resentment and become toxic.  Relationships are about sacrifice and compromise as much as they are about anything else. Do your best to be an amazing partner and be good to each other.

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 13/02/2021 12:28 pm
 Anonymous

Hi Emma,

I checked back for a response to my feedback and as I previously stated... if anyone can make it in this type of relationship, I think you can. 

I think you are probably a really nice person... just exploring your sexuality with a willing partner. You seem amazingly kind, very even tempered, and completely rational.  The fact that your kindness shines through in your articles is the only reason I DO believe you when you say "this is what Kevin wants too".  But I still question the latest development. 

That is why I wanted his feedback on "his" feelings when you invited Andrew to watch you peg Kevin without discussing it with Kevin first (at least that's the way it sounded in the blog). 

I mentioned he might feel totally emasculated by this and it might hurt your relationship in the long run. Recently you've posted where emasculation is good.  Be careful:  As was said in a great literary masterpiece; "With great power, comes great responsibility" ~ Spiderman 😉 .  You have great power over Kevin's psyche.  Not so sure emasculation is a good thing in a "loving" female led relationship - not unless he wants it.  If you do it and he doesn't want it, that's where the breakdown starts.  

I think sometimes when we research, we get stuck in a rabbit hole.  Have you watched the "Social Dilemma" on Netflix.  If not, I implore you and every other person on the planet to watch it.  It's from the inventors of Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, Google, Reddit and even a guy who was an inventor of the actual internet.

It will show you how they wrote an algorithm in an attempt to give us what we want and therefore be able to sell us more stuff.  What they really created an instrument that brain washes us.  If you search for things like emasculation and you've previously searched articles on female led relationships, femdom, and the like... the only articles that will come up in your feed will be articles that support your idea.  You won't get anything negative unless you specifically search for something negative about the topic. 

It's scary, but it's true.  I think it's why the country is so divided right now is that if you lean even slightly one way or the other... all you get is articles about how that side is right, never the other side's points, which leads you further right or left... thinking you're right and you can't understand how anyone could think any differently.

Anyway, please check out the Social Dilemma.  

I will get back to the questions you asked me back in a separate post as I got off on a tangent when I saw the recent post.  I appreciate your thoughtful responses and think your questions deserve my replies.  Unfortunately, I'm off to the gym for now, so I'm out of time.

Keep thinking, exploring, and communicating.  Hope you, as well as all those following are well and stay well.

Namaste

Stan  

ReplyQuote
Posted : 17/02/2021 9:21 am
Emma liked
 Anonymous

Hi Emma,

So the reason I even took the time to write in the first place is that I read through most of your blog.  I thought, WOW, this seems like someone who is giving SOLID advice for couples who want to explore a more female led relationship when the man is more submissive than the wife and wants to explore.  I was going to give you a 100% thumbs up, way to go Emma... then I read about opening your relationship.

You wrote:  That is wonderful, we chose to explore nonmonogamy and I think either option is wonderful. Admittedly it took quite some time for me to open my mind to the idea of nonmonogamy and it also took the perfect set of circumstances. Had the pandemic and subsequent lockdown happened, I don't know if we would have ever embraced it in the way we did. We truly jumped in head first.

Opening your relationship was my only concern.  That is why I wrote.  

We're writing our book because we look at marriage statistics and it worries us.  People aren't getting married today at nearly the rate as previous generations.  That's not a good thing. 

Divorce is happening at a rate of 40% to 50% of all marriages.  Also, not a good thing. Second marriages fail 60+% of the time and 3rd and beyond is over 70% failure.  Cheating, adultery, cuckolding ~ even with partner's knowledge, swinging, and open marriages all contribute to to this divorce statistic according to marriage counselors and therapist.  Sex with people outside the marriage seems to break the relationship in most cases. 

My wife and I have had an incredible sex life thus far.  During our working life we managed to have sex 3 to 5 times a week.  Since we retired we like to have sex almost every day.  Not too bad for REALLY old farts.  I still have a big libido and she gets Thermiva vaginal rejuvenation yearly (really works amazing if there are any older ladies reading), so we are fornicating old fogies.   

We stumbled on our lifestyle and only in hindsight and being able to look at data and studies are we able to figure out why "our" way worked for "US" these last 37 years.

Bottom line: We fantasized cuckold scenarios.  I am a very competitive male, I know my way around a woman's body, and I think I compare favorably in the bedroom to anyone.  So, to me the thought of another guy with my wife (in fantasy) just fueled my competitive juices.

The problem arises in trying to explain this to you or to others how cuckolding works on a man's libido and not have you go, "see, cuckolding is a good thing".  I believe it IS a good thing in fantasy... not so much in reality.  

Fact: Cuckolding WILL increase your male partner's libido.  After a man thinks or knows his partner has been promiscuous, he will have firmer erections, more ejaculate, more sperm in his ejaculate, and a quicker refractory period between erections.  There are many studies about this under the heading of Sperm Competition.  Originally hypothesized by Robin Baker in the book Sperm Wars.

This is a biological phenomenon that is occurring in Kevin when you cuckold him that you aren't taking advantage of, so the cuckolding becomes about dominance and degradation, not about the fire you build in him to reclaim you.  That is another reason I think cuckolding in your situation isn't optimum for a long term success.  

Fact: Cuckolding, hotwife, open marriage have nearly the same statistics = it will end your relationship 95% of the time within 5 years.  Obviously 5% are the exception to the rule.  With your dynamic communication... I'd say you have the best possible chance of success as long as you keep listening to Kevin also.

I've been researching our book for over 5 years.  I've looked at a ton of data.  Some of it is guestimates from psychologist and counselors.  Some of it comes from census data.  Some comes from the bureau of labor and statistics. Some comes from university and sex research institutes conducting studies. Some comes from looking at how many people are on sites like swing lifestyle, Ashley Madison, Adult Friend Finder.  Not easy to find unbiased, accurate data and I've spent lots of time digging to come up with what I think are pretty accurate estimates. 

It is ESPECIALLY difficult in my case, or yours where your previous searches show that you agree with cuckolding or open marriage.  Nothing in my feed would ever give me the negatives.  I had to specifically search and even then the data was hard to find.

So, that's why I was fearful of you opening your relationship and inviting a third into your bed.  It usually doesn't work.  You say you don't call Kevin a Beta.  I don't use that term derogatorily... only as a descriptor.  And it really is a good descriptor in Kevin's case ~ NO Alpha would ever let you peg him in front of another guy... then let you have piv sex with that guy in front of him.  An Alpha wouldn't let you peg him as anything other than sex play.  An Alpha won't allow you to be in charge or to dominate him.  He may share being in charge with you like I do with my wife, but you'll never dominate him.

This is just me hypothesizing:  Does Andrew let you peg him?  I doubt it if this is working the way I believe it is.  You have Kevin as your soulmate, but because he's so submissive, you needed someone stronger to meet your emotional need for an Alpha so took the leap and let Andrew in.  If you can find a situation like the one you're in where you can have your femdom relationship with Kevin and an Alpha to feed your desires for a "real" man, you have the best of both worlds. 

The problem as mentioned earlier is the unless Kevin is bi, Andrew brings nothing to the relationship for Kevin and takes your attention from Kevin.  As you continue to degrade and emasculate Kevin with cuckolding, after he's given you his heart and soul... he breaks, and either becomes too needy and you bail on him because of his neediness or he becomes disgusted and he bails.  Not saying that is what is going to happen... but I've read "this story" at least 50 times on different sites.

It brings me back to a question that you kind of talked around... I don't care about the cage or pegging or orgasm denial.  Those are all things that can exist in a "loving" female led relationship.  I was really asking that if Kevin told you I don't want any other people in our relationship ever again... I want this to be just you and me.  Would you be able to not have an Alpha to have sex with?  I just wonder if now that you've gone this far, could you go back to getting all your needs satisfied by just Kevin?  That is, as I've pointed out above, the real issue with cuckolding in a FLR.  Once you've had both, it's tough to go back to just one.   

 

I'll provide you a copy of the book for free as I will be donating any proceeds.  Should be publishing around October - December.  I'm retired and just doing it as a "give back" project so I'm in no rush.  It's been 5 years in the making.  I hope it will provide some people with an understanding of their biology and what makes them tick... therefore allowing them to make good decisions that will enhance their relationships.

Again, Good luck Emma.  I'll be checking on your progress.

Be well,

Stan

ReplyQuote
Posted : 17/02/2021 6:23 pm
Emma liked
subhubphx
(@subhubphx)
Reputable Member

@stan

This is all very interesting.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 18/02/2021 8:20 am
Emma liked
 Anonymous
Posted by: @dharmaproject

Stan’s comments clearly show that he believes that his way is the best way for not just his marriage, but for all marriages. He clearly has passion for his belief and has some some research. Like Emma, I have my doubts on the validity, sample size, and interpretation of his findings but that is okay. He can say that his is the one true way. He can believe that. There are millions of people that believe that once you get married then any sexual interactions with someone who isn’t your spouse is wrong. Good for them. Some people believe in only eating the same thing for dinner, every day too.

Nope.  You didn't read my post.  I don't think there is anything wrong with it.  I just think that statistically, it doesn't work out for MOST people.  There are certainly exceptions to that rule.  As I stated, I think if anyone can be successful, Emma can.  She appears to communicate with Kevin and get his true feelings on things... Except when she pegged him in front of Andrew and then cuckolded him without allowing him release.  I saw that as a possible "foul" that could hurt their relationship.   

On the other hand, there are those of us who believe differently. We believe that opening our bedroom activities to other people can be fun, enjoyable, and insightful. There are those of us who believe that a chastity cage and retention is a wonderful thing. Finally there are those of us who want to go to the casino buffet of sexual activity and eat something from every section.

I say good for you when it works out.  For a vast majority, it does not.  Everybody wants to be adventurous, but few are emotionally and psychologically equipped.  That's what the statistics say.

Let's take a poll right here.  This is a site with 2K+ members.  You would have to assume that the majority are fans of FLR/FLM or femdom. I'm looking at Emma and Kevin's "overall" situation.

To provide and answer to this question:

1.  You must be in a FLR/FLM

2. You must actively practice chastity and orgasm control with your partner and practice pegging as your more preferred source of sex with your primary partner.

3. You must actively cuckold your primary partner.

Question:  How long have you been in your relationship while also practicing cuckolding?

If your assessment is true, given this audience, I would expect at least half of the members to be in substantial, long term relationships... 10, 20, 30 years. Let's hear from you all so that I can adjust my prospective.  The data I have says this isn't true.  

Stan is one of those people who thinks that there is one true way and his way is the best. That is his right but I prefer to believe that there is no one true way and that as long as there is open communication, consenting adults should decide what works for them.

And I agree that adults should decide what works for them!  I also think they should look at all the mitigating factors when making a decision. I don's say "don't".  I say be careful, these are the statistics.  These are the slippery slopes you are treading when you emasculate your primary and the possible pitfalls you face.  There are case study after case study that follows almost the exact path Emma is taking with Kevin.  I was just trying to inform her of the things I discovered about this subject while doing my research and why I still want to hear from Kevin about the experience of being pegged then cuckolded without discussion in front of Andrew.

 

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 18/02/2021 5:10 pm
 Anonymous
Posted by: @evolvingyourman_ivcr4j

Thanks all. People hold relationships near and dear to their hearts so something that goes against the social norm can provoke some very strong emotions. I get it! I am not saying that Stan is a troll but even when trolls show up and have an immediate tone to their posts, I don't immediately jump to the conclusion that their opinion is invalid. In fact, if they are upset they probably are seeing a contradiction to something that they hold near and dear to their heart.

I am a firm believer that we can learn from each other and am genuinely hopeful that Stan responds because I think there is value to his opinions. I'm interested in hearing more about the book as well.

I appreciate and ❤️ all of you, even if we disagree on certain things!

If you think I was passionate about everyone doing it "my way", the tone of my message was wrong. 

I think all kinds of relationships can exist.  I am tickled for people who love each other and have successful relationships.  I was concerned for you, because I read about a great couple in a wonderful, loving, FLR that from all practical intents and purposes was as clean as I've ever seen one described. 

Then you opened your relationship and cuckolded your primary.  That caused me fear.  I simply wanted you to know the pitfalls as I've researched them.  In your case, cuckolding without taking into account the biological factors Kevin is dealing with, and pegging him (a very private thing between you two) in front of another man.

If it works, and Kevin is really enjoying it... then you have no cause for concern.  If on the other hand, Kevin wasn't too happy with your decision (FLR or not), then that could cause a chink in your armor.  I really do hope that he will enlighten us as to what that experience was like for him.

That's really it in a nutshell.  You both sound like nice people and I just hope you don't do things unwittingly that screw up your relationship.  If what I say causes you to reflect, discuss, and ensure you're both on the same page... then the message served it's purpose.

The premise of our book is simple:  Marriage rates are crashing.  A big reason is that men aren't big on giving half their property to someone who cheats on them.  Divorce rates are at 40% to 50%.  Cheating, adultery, open marriage, swinging, cuckolding all contribute to the divorce rate (as you stated, many of the open, swinging, and hotwife/cuckold situations were a last gasp to try to save the marriage).  Half of all divorces are initiated due to infidelity. 

With such gross infidelity statistics, something MUST be wrong.  Why does it happen?  Loss of connection, taking each other for granted, boredom in the bedroom AND a woman's biological desire to try different specimens to have the best chance at successful procreation. (This is lizard brain stuff and doesn't really have anything to do with getting pregnant). 

So you have all these desires... unfortunately, when people cheat... or even try opening their marriage... divorce usually happens.

We've been together 37 years.  Didn't experience the 2, 4, or 7 year itch.  Both had numerous opportunities to cheat and didn't.  I was in the service and deployed for 6 to 8 months at a time.  We have numerous statistical factors that work against us having a successful marriage.  And yet, here we are 37 years into our marriage, enjoying each other's company during the lockdown.  That is why I don't put COMPLETE faith in statistics.  We are an exception to some rules also.  

How did we stumble on this successful relationship.  We fantasized about different scenarios. When we fantasized cuckold scenarios, we noticed an additional sexual energy.  We didn't know that's what we were doing at the time... but that's what we were doing.  So we kept coming back and acting out those kind of roleplays.

We believe it had the effect of satisfying my wife's biological desire for variety, and kept my libido charged and our sex life strong (see Sperm Competition).  We've been playing these games for 35 of our 37 years.  We also tried just about everything else.  S&M lite, B&D lite, playing outdoors, playing in public, role playing, cross dressing, pegging, etc.  I take exception to the term "vanilla" for our relationship.  Just because we don't try on new people doesn't mean there is anything "vanilla" about our relationship. 

By maintaining this fantasy, I never stopped competing for my wife's affections.  I bought her flowers a couple times a month, left her love notes, expressed terms of endearment in public, etc.  Basically, I've never stopped courting my wife.  I think I'm constantly reminded to compete for her because of the fantasies we act out.

That's it in a nutshell.  I explain the psychology.  Provide some research.  Talk through different positive and negative scenarios.  Provide some explanations on how to make realistic sex toys.  Discuss various fantasies and how to design realistic cuckold scenarios.  There is some general information about successful relationship tactics ~ do this/don't do that.  I also provide some advice about finances and how to make that work. (Finances/money is the #2 reason for divorce).  I was able to retire at 49 and got my wife retired a couple of years later so I think I have some sound advise to share there also.

Sorry you all consider me a troll.  I may not agree with everything that you all contribute, but I actually do have a genuine interest in positive, happy relationships. That's the reason I'm writing a book to try to help people.  That's the only reason I contributed my $.02 to this topic in the first place. 

Hope you all stay safe and well during these trying times.

Namaste, 

Stan 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 18/02/2021 6:40 pm
HappyCuckold
(@happycuckold)
Eminent Member

@stan I’ve read your posts, and I think you make good points that people need to consider before embarking on a cuckolding lifestyle.  I say this as a husband married to one woman for over 30 years and a cuckold, on and off, for over a decade.  I honestly don’t think my marriage is at risk, but I realize the success of my marriage doesn’t mean cuckolding isn’t risky for most people for the reasons you enumerate. My wife and I were not young when we introduced the element of cuckolding into our FLR. I think that if we had started at a younger age, the risks would have been greater.  I am interested in your ideas about games for simulating the excitement of cuckolding without involving another man.  Because of the pandemic my wife is not currently having sex with anyone else, and she’s not sure how enthusiastic she feels about going back to it.  We do miss the excitement of it, but I think your idea of simulating the experience is worth exploring.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 18/02/2021 8:09 pm
 Anonymous
Posted by: @happycuckold

@stan I’ve read your posts, and I think you make good points that people need to consider before embarking on a cuckolding lifestyle.  I say this as a husband married to one woman for over 30 years and a cuckold, on and off, for over a decade.  I honestly don’t think my marriage is at risk, but I realize the success of my marriage doesn’t mean cuckolding isn’t risky for most people for the reasons you enumerate. My wife and I were not young when we introduced the element of cuckolding into our FLR. I think that if we had started at a younger age, the risks would have been greater.  I am interested in your ideas about games for simulating the excitement of cuckolding without involving another man.  Because of the pandemic my wife is not currently having sex with anyone else, and she’s not sure how enthusiastic she feels about going back to it.  We do miss the excitement of it, but I think your idea of simulating the experience is worth exploring.

Hey Happy,

I don't think you have anything to concern yourself with either.  It's not the 20+ year marriages, where both people have talked through the possible pitfalls of cuckolding that I am concerned with.  It's when it is introduced to scratch the 2, 4, 7 year itch in relatively new relationships.  In other words, it seems to break relationships that don't have a lot of time behind them to develop trust and diminish fear.

Some statements you make tell me yours is a completely different FLR than Emma's also, so I don't believe you are in the same boat. 

Some questions for you so you can understand why I asked Emma the things I asked. 

Are you consistently locked in chastity with orgasm denial and control?  Are you pegged as your wife's preferred method of sex play between the two of you?  Have you ever been pegged in front of your wife's bull, and then left in denial while your wife cuckolds you with her bull?  If the answers are no, then you don't have the same dynamic in your relationship... and I'm not concerned.

Because, if you aren't then the potential emotions aren't the same.  The way I see it, Kevin has essentially been relegated to the status of Emma's girlfriend, who just happens to be a guy.  He gets piv sex occasionally.  I contend that it doesn't probably do much for Emma, hence her desire for more pegging/less piv sex from Kevin. He gets pegged, orgasm controlled, and even humiliated by being pegged in front of Andrew.  Something tells me this is NOT the type of cuckolding relationship you have with your wife.

You also say "SHE'S not sure how enthusiastic she feels going back to it.  That tells me it was probably your idea to initiate cuckolding into your relationship and is also somewhat different from Emma's situation.  

I'll be honest with you.  I'm actually a cuckold too and it didn't ruin my marriage either.  However, we only tried it for real as an experiment after discovering that we had been fantasizing the scenario for 3 decades.  We only did it for 2 years and only with professionals.  I'm not sure it even counts as it was so clinical for me, but she had a really good time... lol.  Fantasy.date Vegas and Cowboys4Angels had a bunch of quality escorts before COVID.  They're a little decimated right now but still some nice looking young men. (Good fantasy material for your wife.  These are men she "could" have.  )  

She had all the variety she wanted by that point we had our last experience.  We had discovered that our fantasies were just as productive for our relationship and our connection but not nearly as expensive.  I hired escorts for her because, as stated before, I'm very competitive and very confident in my abilities.  She got to revive her libido with amazing hunks half her age, and I got the competition I needed to bring out my best game.  We've been having sex almost daily for 4 years since we did this so I guess it did have an effect.  Prior to that it was probably 4-5x/wk so it definitely caused us an increase in frequency. 

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

So this is how we role play.  We have a Hismith thrusting sex machine.  They're not too expensive ~ $500 on Amazon. You can buy all different kinds of dildo attachments or it fits suction cup dildos.  If that is out of your price range, there are many alternatives and even homemade devices using a battery powered reciprocating saw.  Just search for thrusting sex machines.

You can also build inanimate "men" by U-folding a couple of pillows into a pair of shorts.  Put a 10# plate weight in the rear to hold it down.  Put the dildo of choice through the fly of the shorts and zip up to secure.  Now your wife has a man to ride cowgirl while you watch.  Give her a dildo to suck on and now she's having a MFM threesome.  Match motions and actions to your favorite movie and you're being virtually cuckolded.  Your mind won't know the difference and your biological reactions will be the same = STRONG desire to reclaim.

The big thing I discovered is being able to watch really enhanced the experience and made it more real.  When I played the part of the bull wearing a penis sleeve or strap on (so it was different for her and not my cock), then changed roles to be myself after the movie ended to reclaim her... there wasn't the same fire.  When I watch and don't participate, there is a burning fire to reclaim her.  That's why I recommend a thrusting machine if you can afford one.

Before, we just watched movies and fantasized what it would be like.  That worked fine for 33 years and would have kept on working.  We only did it for real as an experiment.  Now, we occasionally review the photos and videos we took of our adventures to get things started then put on a movie that appeals to our fantasy and I take seat.  The Hismith simulates what is going on, on the screen and she controls the speed of thrusting.  She gets some amazing orgasms out of it. Once again, this ignites my desire to reclaim her.

That's a brief description.  If you have more detailed questions, ask.  I'll check back in a couple of days.

Have a great day Happy.

Namaste,

Stan

 

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Posted : 18/02/2021 10:16 pm
HappyCuckold
(@happycuckold)
Eminent Member

@stan.

Stan, thank you for the detailed response.  You are right that my FLR is different from Emma and Kevin’s.  It is also different from yours because, to be honest, I am less virile than you.  Part of me is jealous of Kevin because I find the emasculating things Emma describes really hot, at least in fantasy.  Another part of me is jealous of your virility, especially the fact that you don’t have age related erectile problems that prevent you from having good piv sex with your wife.  But I can deal with jealousy, and I feel lucky to have a wife who loves me the way I am.

To answer your questions:

No, I am not locked in chastity.  I find the fantasy of it hot, but my wife isn’t interested in that.  We do engage in short term orgasm denial.  For example, I love the feeling of submission I get from going down on my wife, knowing that after she has had an orgasm she might deny one to me.  I don’t think denying me orgasms is of special interest to her, but she knows that being a little capricious about it turns me on.  She has never asked me to go for long periods without an orgasm. I am a little jealous of guys whose wives are turned on by doing that.  I am also aware that I would perhaps enjoy the reality of it less than the fantasy.  I really like orgasms!  Lol

No, pegging is not my wife’s preferred way of having sex with me.  In fact, she doesn’t peg me at all for two reasons. She is squeamish about anal penetration, and she says that feeling feminine is sexy for her, so strapping on a dildo to have sex in a masculine way doesn’t interest her.  I find the fantasy of pegging hot, but I wouldn’t want my wife to feel pressured to do anything she doesn’t want to.

No, I have never been pegged or humiliated in any other way in front of another man.  In fact, my wife keeps her bedroom activities with me and the other man entirely separate.  She says she enjoys sex most when it is a private thing between her and one man, whether me or the other.  I am a little jealous of cuckolds who get to see. On the other hand, I wonder whether the reality could ever match my erotic imagination when she is with another man.  My wife does ask me to be a “good boy” when she goes out with another man, meaning I am not supposed to masturbate until she gives permission.  That heightens my arousal.  There is usually some humiliation play when she gets home.  She might tease me that the other guy has a bigger cock and have me masturbate while telling me how good the sex was with the other guy.  She sometimes teases me that she told the other guy she cuckolds me because I have a small cock.  I realize she probably just says that to push my buttons because, although SPH turns me on, she and I both know that I am close to the centre of the bell curve in that department.

I am more similar to Kevin than to you in one respect, Stan. Because I am no longer able to sustain an erection well enough to give my wife satisfying piv sex, I don’t get very much of that.  Me going down on my wife is our main form of sexual interaction these days, or playing with sex toys.  I find the way Emma emasculates Kevin—treating him like a “girlfriend”, as you put it—really erotic.  But I am not sure how I would have handled that as a young man.  For the first 10 years of marriage, during the time our children were born, we had good vanilla sex.  The kinky stuff came later.  I suppose vanilla sex—cunnilingus for her orgasms, piv sex for mine—was all we needed.  My wife and I have sometimes talked about how mindblowing it would have been to do the kinky stuff when we had youthful hormone levels, but who knows how the reality would have been.  Humiliation play turns me on now, but I don’t know whether I could have handled it as a young man, and I do wonder how it might have affected my wife’s feelings about me if we had started it as newlyweds.  In fact, I suspect she wouldn’t even have married me if I was as sexually submissive back then as I am now.  Submissiveness isn’t a quality most women want in the man who is going to father their children.  On the other hand, we live in different times now.  FLR wasn’t even a thing when I got married.  People come of age knowing it is a possible lifestyle choice, so that probably makes a big difference.  It is certainly easier for dominant women to find submissive men nowadays. I think anything may be possible when the right woman is matched with the right man.

I believe that sperm competition explains part of the appeal of cuckolding.  My orgasms are more intense, and the ejaculate more copious, after my wife has been with another man.  But I don’t benefit from it the same way you do, Stan.  From what you have said, sperm competition turns you into a raging stud, with the result that you and your wife both get the benefit of satisfying piv sex from it.  But that would be different if the husband was less virile than you, whether on the basis of natural endowment or age related sexual decline.  Part of the satisfaction of cuckolding for some of us is the thought that our wives are getting a kind of sexual pleasure that another man is better able to provide.  But I can see how that could endanger a new marriage.

I like your idea of couples playing with the fantasy of cuckolding.  Come to think of it, my wife and I used to do that sometimes.  This was back when I still had decent erections.  We would pretend that I was some other guy she found hot and that she was cheating on me with that guy.  We had some good piv sex that way.  The cheating fantasy turned her on, and I was able to experience the excitement of being the bull and the cuckold simultaneously.  Imagination is a wonderful thing. That game turned out to be a gateway to r/l cuckolding for us, but I think you are right that some couples may do well just to play rather than taking the risks that come with the real thing.

Thanks for all the interesting suggestions,

HC

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Posted : 19/02/2021 12:59 pm
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