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Stan
 Stan
(@stan)
Eminent Member

@happycuckold

Hey Happy,

Thanks for your detailed reply.  I'm really enjoying the discourse in this blog and it's a nice break from research.  I'm learning a little as I read through responses, but I could have almost guessed what you were going to tell me.

I ABSOLUTELY agree with you.  Everyone is different.  My wife and I have a saying: "Everyone is crazy, it's just that some people's crazy fits with other people's crazy".

What you describe as your relationship makes sense.  You cuckold because you can't satisfy your wife's desires due to ED issues.  That is called compersion.  You get pleasure from your wife receiving pleasure.  I am the same but different.  I like my wife to have pleasure, and I don't care if it's me or another guy who gives it to her... I enjoy her pleasure.  Where we differ is that when she's done, I want to remind her that what's at home is every bit as good if not better. 

The difference between your relationship and Emma's appears to be: You were together in a more conventional FLR with no cuckolding for 20 years.  That is a lot of time to get to know your partner.  What I read, when I read between the lines of your response is: Your wife is satisfied with just you and your sex life, just the way you are/it is .  She cuckolds for her own pleasure, but I'm wondering if it isn't also equally or more so to take some of the pressure off of you because of your ED issues.  She knows you love her and want her to be fulfilled by being able to have piv sex, so she may be doing it as much for you as for her.  I'd love it if you would ask her.

Emma and Kevin started out like this.  Then they introduced chastity and orgasm control.  Then they introduced pegging.  There is absolutely nothing destructive I see about anything they were doing up to this point.  Kevin and Emma simply switched sexual gender roles.  Emma states she prefers pegging to piv sex with Kevin as it is more connective.  If they stop there, get to know everything about each other, and wait 20 years like you and your wife before introducing cuckolding, I would have said nothing.

They didn't.  They introduced cuckolding very early in a FLR.  The problem is that even submissive guys have egos and pride.  They don't want to be pushed beyond their limits and they want their partners to love and respect them even if they are submissive. 

The problem with this type of FLR, is that Kevin is submissive, Emma is his mistress, and Andrew is the Bull.  I've read nothing about Kevin having erection difficulties, but Emma would prefer to peg Kevin and get piv sex from Andrew.  They all live together.  She has pegged Kevin in front of Andrew and then cuckolded Kevin with Andrew, never allowing Andrew  release. She did this without discussing it with Andrew and he didn't confront her (at least not that we've heard).  That means that Kevin is becoming more and more submissive sexually.  She may not acknowledge it, but her respect for Andrew, as a "man", not as a person, is diminishing.  That makes piv sex way less exciting between Emma and Andrew because she can't see him as a "strong" man when they couple. To be fulfilled completely she will more than likely always need an Alpha Bull. 

In a mature relationship like yours, a situation like that might have a chance.  There is a reason your wife could "need" other men.  Although, as you've pointed out... oral and toys work just fine if you're not interested in the real thing.

There is no "reason" for Emma to "need" Andrew... or someone like Andrew.  Kevin's equipment works fine.  However, I contend that the submissive things Kevin has done in front of Emma will prevent her from ever being able to enjoy piv sex again with Kevin like she does with Andrew. 

Not because of the physical act, but because of the psychology.  She really doesn't see him as much of a man anymore.  A beautiful, wonderful, human being... ABSOLUTELY!  A man, NO!  That means that she will always need a bull to feel complete ~ IMHO.  Just regurgitating a number of case studies I've read.  As I said, my main job for the last 5 years has been doing relationship and sex research.  When this is introduced this early in the relationship, it usually doesn't turn out well.

Lastly, I've read studies that say cuckolding can have positive effects on ED.  You say you already experience increased ejaculate volume.  I recommend you try my pillow/shorts guy method, have a drink or smoke a joint, really set your mind on the fantasy, and really observe when the sex act is happening.  Watch that big cock disappear into her. Imagine if you were there watching, just a few feet away.  See if it has any additional effects on your ED. 

If you have a positive effect... you might discuss her allowing you to sit and watch for real.  I know she say's it's better private and not sure she even wants to do it again, but if it makes things hotter for your relationship, she would probably relent.  Just a thought.

Hope you're well Happy.  Have a fantastic day.

Namaste,

Stan

ReplyQuote
Posted : 19/02/2021 3:51 pm
Stan
 Stan
(@stan)
Eminent Member

Sorry, I made this paragraph above VERY CONFUSING by switching Andrew and Kevin during the narrative.  This is the repaired version.

The problem with this type of FLR, is that Kevin is submissive, Emma is his mistress, and Andrew is the Bull.  (These are just terms.  I can say sub male, dom female, dom male.  I can say Beta, cuckoldress/mistress, Alpha.  They're all just terms to describe the personalities involved.)

I've read nothing about Kevin having erection difficulties, but Emma would prefer to peg Kevin and get piv sex from Andrew.  They all live together.  She has pegged Kevin in front of Andrew and then cuckolded Kevin with Andrew, never allowing Kevin release.

She did this without discussing it with Kevin and he didn't confront her (at least not that we've heard).  That means that (by all appearances) Kevin is becoming more and more submissive sexually.  She may not acknowledge it, but her respect for Kevin, as a "man", not as a person, is diminishing.  That makes piv sex way less exciting between Emma and Kevin because she can't see him as a "strong" man when they couple. To be fulfilled completely she will more than likely always need an Alpha Bull. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 19/02/2021 8:45 pm
HappyCuckold
(@happycuckold)
Eminent Member

@stan

Stan, I will say that your reading of the nature of the relationship between my wife and me is accurate.  I would just point out that our marriage has gone through 3 distinct phases:

1. Traditional “vanilla” marriage based on an ideal of gender equality.

2. FLR that came about because of an interest in spanking discipline I developed after my online discovery that adult/adult spanking was a thing.  That evolved into a comprehensive 24/7 power exchange.

3. FLR with the addition of cuckolding. (Btw, my wife doesn’t like that term for the kind of non monogamy we practice because it implies that it is something she is doing TO me).

 I don’t know what will happen after the pandemic.  We may be transitioning back to stage 2.  I have found stage 3 exciting, but I will be led by my wife.

As to your conjectures about Emma, Kevin, and Andrew, I will let Emma speak.  But I find your warnings to be rather pessimistic and harsh.  I find their arrangement to be a fascinating (and sexy) lifestyle experiment.

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 19/02/2021 8:48 pm
Stan
 Stan
(@stan)
Eminent Member

@happycuckold

As to your conjectures about Emma, Kevin, and Andrew, I will let Emma speak.  But I find your warnings to be rather pessimistic and harsh.  I find their arrangement to be a fascinating (and sexy) lifestyle experiment.

I'm not trying to be mean.  I'm regurgitating what I've read in dozens of psychology articles and on cuckold blogs as to what is most likely going to happen in this relationship.  What they've done is not usually conducive to a "long term" relationship considering some of the things that have happened without discussion or even a tremendous amount of thought.

I'm worried about Kevin.  A submissive can be led by a dominant to do things that they don't want to do.  That's why her pegging him (which is described by Emma as a very special, close, tender, private thing between her and Kevin) in front of Andrew and then cuckolding him after the pegging concerned me soooooo much.  That seemed like a real crossing of boundaries.  Later when it all blows up... there is a lot of emotional scaring.

The problem I see is that I didn't read anywhere in this whole blog that Kevin ever expressed a desire to be submissive to other men.  What he an Emma were sharing was special to them.  He agreed to the cuckolding but Emma forced his submissiveness to Andrew by pegging him in front of Andrew and then cuckolding him following that act.  She even stated that "she didn't know whether Kevin wanted to be submissive to Andrew", but by doing what she did... she forced that submission.  Now he's submissive to other men, whether he is or not... in his mind AND in Emma's. 

I've tried to get Emma to comment.  I asked specifically:  "If Kevin told you that he wanted to go back to JUST you and him, no outside people (bulls) in the relationship ever again, would you?  After all that has gone on, can you honestly get all your needs met by Kevin?  I also asked to hear Kevin's take on how it felt to be pegged in front of Andrew without being consulted before the fact.  I haven't heard back.

The problem if she can't say yes, I could be satisfied with just Kevin:  They are very new in their relationship and they are very young.  If there is already always going to be a third somewhere in the wings... unless being a cuckold is really Kevin's thing, they have slim to no chance of a long term relationship.  From what I've read, he isn't.  This was just something they "jumped into" ~ Emma's words.

I realize though, the problem with all my pontificating on this subject is": This all this is water under the bridge.  It's already happened.  I'm not early enough with any of this information to do any good.  They can't put the genie back in the bottle so I can do no good with my ramblings.

I will just HOPE that things don't go the way I fear they will.  I really want to be wrong.  Time will tell.  Hope Emma and Kevin are still together 5 years from now and happily living their FLR to prove me wrong.

I probably won't be back often as I only came here for some pegging info. This isn't my kink and I don't think I'm helping anyone, plus, my comments about all this are probably make some folks uncomfortable... 

Best of luck to you Happy, and to all the readership.  Stay safe during COVID and beyond.

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 19/02/2021 10:50 pm
subhubphx
(@subhubphx)
Reputable Member
Posted by: @stan

This isn't my kink and I don't think I'm helping anyone, plus, my comments about all this are probably make some folks uncomfortable... 

Stan,

I've read your comments and banter with Emma and others with great interest.  Your straight forward/get to the heart of the matter approach is very much much like Emma's.  It's a manner of communicating with the written word that I appreciate very much and is the main reason for why I enjoy this blog site as much as I do.  There is ACTUAL communication going on with ACTUAL adults that never evolves into discourteous, childish name calling when there are differing views on things.  Even if those differing views are a debate over whether a rose is a rose.  Reasonable discourse among different opinions is important and I believe what happens within this site, and in particular from Emma.

I disagree with you about "I don't think I am helping anyone".  You very much are.  Cuckolding isn't Our/my kink either.  Someone here (sorry, I can't remember who it was) said once, and I'll paraphrase ... I'm not submissive to women, I am submissive to my wife.  When I saw that I thought it was a brilliant comment and feel that it describes Our/my situation to a T. 

The world and the people in it insist on applying labels to almost everything and everybody.  As such, much gets lost in translation and perception.  In every aspect of my life except one, I am Alpha.  A mentor, a leader of women and men, a leader in my community.  On top and in charge of my own company.  Masculine, rugged, courteous, helpful and courteous to all but decidedly in control of the things in life that affect my life.  Yet, I chose to offer the gift of my submission to my Wife as a gesture of my love and devotion to her, and with intent of helping allow for her to experience joy and pleasure in all aspects of her life ... and she accepted my gift of submission and in doing so assumed the role of leader in our our marriage, and all of the assumed aspects that go along with that, sexual and otherwise.  That was 10 years ago and our love and our marriage have grown exponentially because of it.  We've never been happy.

Even though this incredible and amazing site is about the evolution of men in relationships via various means like orgasm control, chastity (with or without the use of cages), semen retention, compersion, etc., invariably there will be discussion about the unique ways individual couples navigate what I believe to be Female Led Relationships.  Of course it will include discussions about non-monogamy, ethical or otherwise, including cuckolding.

Presently, Our/my relationship does not involve any manner of non-monogamy.  My Mistress Wife simply has little or no interest in it because, in her words, she doesn't want to risk our marriage.  If her feelings on the matter were to change and wanted to explore non-monogamy, she has that right and ability, and if her feelings were to morph in that direction, we'd talk about it ... in depth and honestly.  Having trust and confidence in her, after we'd discuss it, she would decide what our path would look like gong forward from there.  That said, I have all the faith in the world and trust in her that any decision along those lines that she would make would first and foremost, safeguard my heart and our marriage.

We've roleplayed cuckolding when we have sex and in small measure have discussed the likelihood of whether or not it would ever become a reality for the reasons already mentioned.  That said, my greatest joy sexually is to witness my Wife engaged in amazing sexual pleasure.  For us, "her orgasms are my orgasms" is absolutely the truth.  In fact, I've even been able to become so aroused at witnessing her orgasm and writhe in sexually pleasure that I've orgasmed myself with zero physical stimulation.  Granted they were "ruined orgasms" and yes, they were unauthorized orgasms for which I received punishment, but you get my point.  

How did you help the readers of this blog site?  Well, for me anyway you introduced the idea of a professional to provide her with a new and different way to receive sexual bliss.  Why a professional?  Well because she has said in the past that if it were ever to happen, it would have to be a 'come in, get the job done and then leave immediately' experience.  No hanging around, no want to stay for a drink, or breakfast, or anything ... just leave before the sweat on her body has a chance to dry.  We don't even want to know his name.  I am aware that even this kind of scenario has it's inherent risks to the marriage, but clearly it could be a way to dip Her/our toe into what matters most to U/us .... her pleasure. 

So there you have it ... you did in fact help someone, even if it is only Us/me.  I hope you'll be around to comment further on this and any other topics or scenarios that are of interest to you.

Best

jay

ReplyQuote
Posted : 20/02/2021 5:34 am
Stan
 Stan
(@stan)
Eminent Member
Posted by: @subhubphx
Posted by: @stan

This isn't my kink and I don't think I'm helping anyone, plus, my comments about all this are probably make some folks uncomfortable... 

How did you help the readers of this blog site?  Well, for me anyway you introduced the idea of a professional to provide her with a new and different way to receive sexual bliss. 

So there you have it ... you did in fact help someone, even if it is only Us/me.  I hope you'll be around to comment further on this and any other topics or scenarios that are of interest to you.

Thank you very much Jay,

I truly didn't come here to create discomfort or discontent.  The purpose of my book is to try to help people.  The purpose of my comments were only an attempt to encourage discourse about the situation and enlighten all as to the perils. When I read about people in distress because of decisions they've made or actions they've taken that could have been avoided... it makes me sad.  If I think I can help, I interject.  In this case, my comments were too late to create any discussion, "before the fact".  

What I finally realized last night was that I was trying to convince Emma about the perils and pitfalls of cuckolding Kevin... AFTER she already cuckolded him.  I was too late for my argument to have any impact.

My hypothesis of their situation was based on reading numerous case studies, interviews with psychologists and psychiatrists, and posts on numerous cuckold blogs. 

My fear was that once she broke the bond of exclusivity that she and Andrew have, that this will just deteriorate their relationship.  Since she already stated she gets more pleasure, even without orgasm or any real sexual feelings, when she pegs Kevin I had real concerns about allowing in a third.  Rough quote: We have piv sex frequently but I prefer pegging Kevin to piv sex with Kevin due to the closeness it creates.  Is her preference for pegging Kevin also due to not really getting very sexually excited about piv sex with Kevin because he is really submissive? 

The fear:  If she isn't really enjoying piv sex with Kevin due to not getting turned on like she would if he was an alpha "taking her" during piv... then she allows an alpha to have her while Kevin observes (again, very submissive behavior), her desire for piv sex with Kevin will diminish further.  Pretty soon Kevin is just a locked up sub who gets pegged a lot while Emma gets piv satisfaction from alpha bulls.

There is a LOT of psychology at play in this situation.  I know it doesn't necessarily have to go down that way.  This is hypothesis.  However it is hypothesis that is rooted in reading about this "nearly exact" scenario on numerous occasions.  I just hope these two kids are really communicating and being honest with each other.  I've read some accounts of subs who just kept being led further down the rabbit hole.  When it's all over, the emotional scars are huge. 

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

I will say that I think going with professionals is the way to go if you want the cuckold experience.  You get the experience  without all the drama.  Our first experience was so easy it was almost surreal.  We met, talked a little, and 20 minutes later I was unzipping her dress to present her to him. 

He made it really easy for us.  Once in the room he stated basically, "Look, I'm a man whore, whatever you're into... I'm sure we're all going to have a great time."  No emotional bs. He was there to provide sex.  And he did his job very well!  

Following this was when I really bought the sperm competition theory.  I'm an old man.  I don't use C or V to enhance my libido.  I'm all natural.

I reclaimed my wife 5 times in 24 hours following this event.  Watching our movies and fantasizing cuckold scenarios had always provided us with an extra spark.  This event actually lit a bonfire.  I had this reaction every time we did this.  My most energetic was 7 times in 36 hours.

Then we discovered that after having done it for real, our fantasies were nearly as productive and WAY less expensive.  We played around with it for a couple of years and are now monogamous again, but still playing with our fantasies.

If you want to show your wife what hooking up with an escort would be like, check out the show Gigolos ~ it's a canceled Showtime documentary series that ran 7 seasons.  I think you can still find old episodes on the net though.  The guys from that show were the actual guys you could hire from the cowboys4angels website.  Most of the original cast are gone now though. 

We hired Vin Armani as our first after watching an episode where he was really good at making a newbie couple feel comfortable.  He was exactly the same in person and made our first experience as comfortable and drama free as I could ever expect.  If as you say, your wife would only be interested in the meet him, have sex, he leaves, scenario... An escort would be perfect for you  guys.

Again, thanks for taking the time and letting me know that even if I was late on my warnings to Emma, some of my ramblings were helpful to others.  My goal for the remainder of my journey is to help where I can and to leave no pain in my wake.  I'm most happy when those around me are happy. 

I wish everyone happiness and joy in their lives.  Stay safe and well!

Namaste,

Stan  

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 20/02/2021 7:20 am
subhubphx liked
subhubphx
(@subhubphx)
Reputable Member
Posted by: @stan

My fear was that once she broke the bond of exclusivity that she and Andrew have

Did you mean Kevin here?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 20/02/2021 7:34 am
subhubphx
(@subhubphx)
Reputable Member
Posted by: @stan

Is her preference for pegging Kevin also due to not really getting very sexually excited about piv sex with Kevin because he is really submissive? 

First ... I meant to say and didn't that I am a HUGE believer in "to each their" and "whatever works for us" is something to be celebrated and cherished.  Even if it is something that wouldn't work for Mistress K. and I.  We only "know" what information is actually available about Kevin and Emma ... and Andrew ... and as such we can really only assume that Emma's portrayal of all of it is accurate as it relates to them.  Even as their roles may be evolving.

Your comment about Emma perhaps not getting sexually excited about PIV sex with Kevin falls very much into the category of speculation.  You may be right, but then again Kevin may very well be living his best life with the way things seems to be developing.  For Us/me, my gift of submission to my loving wife started off and continues to be nothing more than her comfort level in controlling when, how and how often PIV sex happens, rather than a situation where her desire for PIV with me diminishes over time.  That's our sstory and I'm sticking to it.  *smile   Granted, being teased to the edge and denied orgasm mostly (I have 3-5 per year) can sometimes mean that I have a hair trigger when what she wants is a good, long, hard fucking.  We solve that problem with a cock sleeve or a strap on.  

Posted by: @stan

I truly didn't come here to create discomfort or discontent.  The purpose of my book is to try to help people

I didn't get the sense that your comments created discomfort or discontent here, especially from Emma.  Perhaps they did but I didn't get that feeling.  The members here are kind of protective of Emma, so perhaps there may be some chivalry being exhibited by taking up for her.  Emma's a big girl, with a lovely disposition and has always welcomed different, even opposing viewpoints.  I'm certain she is and will be just fine.  

Lastly ... what book are you talking about?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 20/02/2021 7:55 am
HappyCuckold
(@happycuckold)
Eminent Member

@stan. I think I understand your point. Basically, it concerns the importance of consent in a dominant/submissive relationship.  You are concerned that unless Kevin has explicitly consented to Emma’s involvement of Andrew in their bedroom activities, it could do serious emotional damage.  Additionally, due to the vulnerable position of the submissive partner in such a relationship, Emma can’t assume that Kevin’s compliance is real consent.  Would confirmation that Kevin has explicitly consented to the arrangement allay your fears?  

ReplyQuote
Posted : 20/02/2021 8:45 am
Stan
 Stan
(@stan)
Eminent Member
Posted by: @subhubphx

Your comment about Emma perhaps not getting sexually excited about PIV sex with Kevin falls very much into the category of speculation.  You may be right, but then again Kevin may very well be living his best life with the way things seems to be developing. 

You are absolutely right.  That is why I asked her if now that she's had both a non sub (get the feeling she doesn't like the term beta) and a sub at the same time... are there emotional and physical needs being met that won't be met by having just Kevin alone again.  No reply yet.

Emma seems like a gem.  I understand why you are protective of her.  I am using a different approach to try to be protective of her.  I am worried about  the situation... that's all.  I'm not telling her what she's doing won't work. I'm asking her to be really careful.  A lot of people out there want to be adventurous and explore cuckolding, hotwifing, swinging, open marriage.  Statistics say that few are mentally or emotionally equipped.

If you want full understanding on the book thing, you'll have to read back through this blog.  Quick recap of how it relates to Emma and I having a conversation: 6 or 7 years ago I finally figured out what I think made our sex life so successful throughout the years.  I was reflecting and found it interesting that we were 30 years in and going strong when others had gone through significant decline or stopped having sex completely.  We averaged 3x - 5x per week during our working life, now we play almost daily.  We've been married for 37 years and monogamous except for the experiment we did with escorts.  We did that more to test theories than any real desire to experience cuckolding from either of our prospective.

I finally realized we had been fantasizing cuckold scenarios since almost the beginning.  I did a bunch of research and found a number of research articles about a phenomenon called sperm competition.  Robin Baker wrote a book about it called Sperm Wars.  What this research reveals is that it doesn't matter if you're dominant or submissive... doesn't matter if you are being cheated on consensually cuckolded, the sperm competition phenomenon occurs. If you believe or know that your partner has been promiscuous, you will have: A firmer erection, more copious ejaculate, more sperm in your ejaculate, more "athletic" sperm in your ejaculate, quicker refractory period between erections.  There is so much research out there on this subject that it's almost irrefutable. 

So 5 years ago I decided to research the subject of cuckolding to the Nth degree.  Based on my reaction to the escorts and our amazing fantasy sex life previously, I was even more of a proponent for the practice of cuckolding.  I wanted to explain the positives this could have on people's sex lives and their relationship.  

I began researching everything I could find on cuckolding.  What I found was that in actual practice... it is usually very destructive.  Only about 1 in 20 couples last 5 years after introducing cuckolding into their relationship.  Older couples with more time together have more success than younger couples with less time.  Couples who introduce cuckolding to scratch the 2, 4, or 7 year itch almost never make it. 

So I switched the focus of my book to be more on ways that people can play and have fun together without introducing potentially destructive situations, like other people.   One of the topics I was intending to include was pegging.  We've done it and I'm even able to have p-gasms, so I thought others should know about that. 

I was looking for a really good article on what it was like from a woman's/man's prospective besides my own.  I read Emma's description and was very impressed.  I read a little of her story and got sucked in.  I was loving everything I read until it got to them deciding to cuckold...(oh no) and then it going further with her pegging Kevin in front of Andrew and then cuckolding him without discussing it with him first(oh no, oh no).  This is a subliminally dominant move that she may not know she was making.  By doing this she made Kevin submissive to Andrew, whether he wanted to be or not... and she states she didn't now what his desires where.

Like you say, she seems like a wonderful person and you find yourself wanting her and Kevin to have this amazing relationship.  My response was passionate but not for the reason any of you think, or seemed to think.  I got sucked in not wanting either of them to be hurt, or for this latest development to destroy their relationship.  And, I have good reason to be concerned based on the data. The only reason I think they have a chance is because of Emma's excellent communication skills.  I hope Kevin is 100% honest with her and I hope this turns out well for them.

Off to the gym.  Be well and stay safe!

Namaste,

Stan   

ReplyQuote
Posted : 20/02/2021 9:35 am
HappyCuckold
(@happycuckold)
Eminent Member

@stan wrote: “I began researching everything I could find on cuckolding.  What I found was that in actual practice... it is usually very destructive.  Only about 1 in 20 couples last 5 years after introducing cuckolding into their relationship.  Older couples with more time together have more success than younger couples with less time.  Couples who introduce cuckolding to scratch the 2, 4, or 7 year itch almost never make it.”

I have been thinking about these statistics. Whether it is possible to have reliable statistics is debatable, but let’s set that debate aside and assume that you are correct that cuckolding generally results in divorce, especially when introduced early in the marriage.

My own intuition is that you are probably right.  Concerning the greater risk to younger couples, I think marriages probably become more stable the longer they last.  In a time of high divorce rates, a couple who have been able to make the compromises and sacrifices needed to stay together for 20 years are less likely to separate, for whatever cause, than newlyweds.  Also if divorce as a solution to relationship problems is subjected to a cost/benefit analysis, the costs probably outweigh the benefits more the longer the marriage has lasted.

As to the existential threat cuckolding poses to MOST marriages, you just have to look at most cuckolding websites to understand why.  My impression is that the “cuckolding scene” is generally driven by male fantasies, often misogynistic fantasies.  You see threads in which men discuss how to manipulate reluctant wives into becoming “sluts”.  It isn’t about female empowerment, but degradation.  I would say that a man asking how he can pressure his wife into performing sexual tricks with other men probably enables you to foresee marriage failure with almost 100 % accuracy.

 The rarer case of a woman who wants a reluctant husband to allow her to have sex with other men is probably also a reliable predictor of marital failure.

 The precise chemistry it takes to create a marriage where non monogamy works—one in which the woman feels joyfully empowered and the man feels compersion—is undoubtedly rare.  That’s why I call myself a Happy Cuckold, but I don’t evangelize for cuckolding.  

I don’t know enough about Emma and Kevin to know whether the stars will line up perfectly for them.  But when I read Emma’s blogs, I perceive her to be a wise, caring, sexually empowered, dominant woman, and I feel as though I would feel privileged to submit to a woman like her if I was a young man.  Maybe my own kinks cloud my perception about this, but I get the feeling that if any woman can make this lifestyle work, Emma can.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 20/02/2021 11:20 am
Stan
 Stan
(@stan)
Eminent Member

@Happycuckold wrote: I think I understand your point. Basically, it concerns the importance of consent in a dominant/submissive relationship.  You are concerned that unless Kevin has explicitly consented to Emma’s involvement of Andrew in their bedroom activities, it could do serious emotional damage.  Additionally, due to the vulnerable position of the submissive partner in such a relationship, Emma can’t assume that Kevin’s compliance is real consent.  Would confirmation that Kevin has explicitly consented to the arrangement allay your fears?  

Hey Happy,
 
I think you homed in on my basic concern.  In 5 years of research, I've read some horrible case studies dealing with this subject.  Mostly it's the guys who end up in therapy because one thing happened... they didn't say anything... another thing happened... they weren't clear on how it made them feel... Emma's a good communicator but as you stated, some serious emotional damage can be done if EVERYTHING isn't 100% ok with all participants. 
 
The subjects of discussion eventually went down a rabbit hole that they never wanted to go down.  These were basically straight, submissive, men who were led by their mistress to try things, like bi-sex, when they weren't bi... or feminization when they had no interest in that side of FLR/femdom lifestyle.  When they explain it in their case studies, one event started the cascade.
 
I recognized a "possible" event. Emma didn't ask Kevin if it would bother him if she pegged him in front of Andrew, and then cuckolded him after ~ thereby making him subservient to her in Andrew's presence.  This has the effect of "making" him subservient to Andrew since Emma is not dominant over Andrew.
 
I can see it in my mind.  Emma is a kind and loving woman.  She is excited to have Andrew living with them.  She gets excited about having sex with both of them.  Kev is on "lockdown".  She thinks it will be exciting and loving to share this experience with both of her lovers.  In her excitement... she never asks him what he thinks about it.
 
I put myself in his place.  I've been sharing a flr with pegging and chastity with the love of my life for a couple of years.  We try cuckolding and it works for us.  Then due to circumstances, we move the guy she cuckolds me with (Andrew) in with us.  Pegging is very loving between us, private and personal between us, it's our thing we're exploring... "just us"... but she puts it out there in front of Andrew and then cuckolds me, "without asking me".  I wouldn't feel as if that was a very loving act, but I'm not Andrew.
 
I just wanted to make sure Kevin and Emma had discussed it, so I asked a bunch of questions.  I didn't ask succinctly enough and Emma didn't address my real questions.  
 
I just want to be sure that everyone is onboard and nobody is being harmed.  We already know that there was no before it happened conversation so we know Kevin did not "explicitly consent" to it before it happened.  I would just like to make sure they've really talked about it after the fact.  Don't want anyone to end up in therapy down the road.
 
Have a great day Happy!
 
Namaste,
Stan
ReplyQuote
Posted : 20/02/2021 3:12 pm
HappyCuckold
(@happycuckold)
Eminent Member

@stan

Out of curiosity, where did you find all of these case studies about psychological harms done by dommes forcing “straight, submissive men” to do things they didn’t want to do.  I can see how that could happen, but is there really an epidemic of dominant women harming submissive men as your warnings seem to imply?  If so, I suppose there must be many more cases of male dominants pushing submissive women too far.

Consent is a tricky business for the dominant partners in D/s relationships, I imagine, because some of us submissives LIKE the feeling of having our limits stretched by our partners.  To be asked constantly whether we consent to our partner’s choices can be an erotic buzz kill. That’s why there are safewords, right?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 22/02/2021 6:03 am
Stan
 Stan
(@stan)
Eminent Member

@HappyCuckold

Hey Happy, 

This will be my last response for a while. I need to get back to my project and I feel like I’ve hijacked this blog.  I said my piece and I hope Emma will look at what I said and discuss it with Kevin to make sure she has clarity on who he is and where he wants to go. 

Hopefully I introduced some information that will make people think a little about the health risks before agreeing to play chastity games or submit or having their ejaculations limited.  Ejaculation Frequency and Risk of Prostate Cancer: Updated Results with an Additional Decade of Follow-up - PubMed (nih.gov)

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Out of curiosity, where did you find all of these case studies about psychological harms done by dommes forcing “straight, submissive men” to do things they didn’t want to do.  

~ Mostly university websites.  A number of schools with great reputations for Psychology and MFCC programs are in my system.  All of those universities share research.  If you’re a student or alumni and have a legitimate need to have access, you can get it easily.   

This is the same network or similar to the network that should be available to Emma.  Emma states she is a Master’s of Psychology student (which is another thing that scares me about her manipulation of Kevin), yet professes ignorance to the fact that cuckolding typically leads to a break in the relationship.  Especially if one person is hesitant or reluctant.

~ Sex theropist websites, their blogs and thoughts on things.  

As I stated, I’ve been researching cuckolding for 5 years.  I was originally a huge fan.  Now I’m not!

I can see how that could happen, but is there really an epidemic of dominant women harming submissive men as your warnings seem to imply?  

~ NO!  Not at all.  But it happens enough that it is getting discussed frequently enough to get some press.  Just want to make sure Emma, in her lust and excitement over the situation, doesn’t lead Kevin down a path he doesn’t want to go on… from which there is no going back once it’s done… and from which can come much emotional distress.

If so, I suppose there must be many more cases of male dominants pushing submissive women too far.

~ Not any more than there used to be = no increase in therapy or marriage counseling, or divorce over that issue.  Women pushing men into cuckolding/hotwifing is on the rise.  Hotwifing is letting your wife date other men but you don't date other women.  More people are trying it and it’s causing increased therapy and increased divorce to occur so it’s getting some press in psychology discussions. 

Consent is a tricky business for the dominant partners in D/s relationships, I imagine, because some of us submissives LIKE the feeling of having our limits stretched by our partners.  To be asked constantly whether we consent to our partner’s choices can be an erotic buzz kill. That’s why there are safewords, right?

~ Indeed.  You need to remember that their relationship is not your own however.  They don’t have a D/s relationship anywhere but in the bedroom according to the blog.  Even in the bedroom he’s more being led through discussion, not dommed into submission.  That’s why not discussing pegging him in front of Andrew is a BIG red flag for me.  “There is no D/s relationship between Kevin and Andrew”.  Pegging him in front of Andrew indicates to me she is pushing him to be submissive to Andrew.

Kevin and Emma have been together for a number of years,  It’s just been them exploring Kevin’s feminine side. This is described as a very close, BONDED, relationship.

Then they decide to start cuckolding.  I’ve looked and looked but can’t find where they discussed this or what that discussion looked like.  My impression is that it was Emma’s idea.  This is based on: “Kevin felt jealous, I explained I’m not a prize”.  That tells me Kevin is “not” happily sharing Emma, but just going along.

The basic psychology is this:  Women desire “alpha” sex.  They just do, that’s biology.  What dominant women (probably all women) don’t want is all the other things that come along with “most” alpha males. The burping, farting, lack of great hygiene, porn watching, masturbating, women chasing… not in touch at all with their feminine side... but most of all, LACK OF ATTENTION PAYING once they get sex, alpha males.   I contend those men aren’t true alphas but that’s another discussion.  

Emma desired alpha sex so subconsciously or consciously, so she convinced Kevin to include Andrew in the  relationship.  That is clear by the fact that she now chooses pegging to piv 2 to 1 with Kevin.  The problem is that by adding Andrew, Emma now gets alpha sex she “biologically” craves (“I am dominant over Kevin, Andrew is dominant over me.”), and the submissive sex she desires ~ pegging Kevin and the closeness it creates.  

The problem is, what does Kevin get?  How long is he going to be happy with this arrangement? He was jealous of Andrew and Emma.  It was explained to him, how things were ~ I'm not a prize. There is a solution.  If Kevin is also submissive to men, maybe even bi so he can enjoy other men too… this could work out!  And THAT is what I have a problem with!!!

Kevin isn’t interested in men sexually by any account on this blog… Kevin is interested in being submissive to Emma.  Kevin isn’t submissive to men by any account on this blog… Kevin is submissive to Emma.  

Pegging him in front of another man without discussion I believe was either a conscious or unconscious act in hopes she may lead him into a more submissive place with men.  If Emma even subtly doms him into going places he doesn’t want to go based on his true sexual identity, there can be serious psychological damage.  He's in love with her and submissive to her.  He IS susceptible. “You know how good my pegging feels?”  “Why don’t you try the real thing?”.  “I bet it will feel wonderful”  Unfortunately, Andrew could suffer serious psychological consequences in the future if she leads him away from his true sexual identity.  

That’s the only way this relationship can continue to work for her that I can see though.  She has to bring Kevin pleasure from the addition of an alpha, or it doesn’t work.  Compersion doesn’t work if you don’t like or are jealous of what your partner is doing. Kevin doesn't like what Emma is doing... he's going along.  Due to the previous quote about jealousy, I don’t see Kevin wanting to stay in a cuckold relationship long term.  Emma says this is temporary. Is it?  Is she ever going to be happy with just Kevin, now that she's had both?

She states she is a student of psychology.  She should know all this!  But then again she should have known about and published the statistics on ejaculation frequency and prostate cancer before recommending it.  People have a right to know what this kink is going to do to them physically and emotionally.

Hope you’re having a fantastic day Happy,

Namaste,

Stan

ReplyQuote
Posted : 22/02/2021 3:20 pm
Stan
 Stan
(@stan)
Eminent Member

@happycuckold

I had a final thought, and then I’m truly out of here.  I’ll let this get back to being a fun place to hang out and have sexual discussions.  I’ll check back in a few months to see how things have turned out.  Emma isn’t commenting on my posts so I’m just having a discussion with the crowd about Emma’s situation.  That's non-productive.

 

Here is my thought: FLIP THE SCRIPT

 

I am a dominant man.  I meet a sweet, straight, submissive woman. We have piv sex.  It doesn’t rock my boat because she’s so submissive but I like her and she likes me.  This grows into a loving  relationship.  We’re years in. She is willing to be even more submissive because she loves me so much and we start exploring. 

 

    1. Since she is so submissive and never really comes after me, I’m not really into vaginal sex with her.  We do it but it’s not very pleasurable for me.
    2. We explore anal sex.  She’s not really into it and really prefers vaginal sex but lets me because she knows I like it.
    3. I like anal sex with her more than vaginal sex, not because I like it physically better than piv, but  because I know she’s only doing it to please me.  That makes me feel powerful and strong.
    4. I talk her into wearing a chastity belt and restricting her vaginal orgasms so that when I do let her have a vaginal orgasm, it will be stronger and more connective.  It also gives me a reason to not have piv sex as often.
    5. I do this knowing that by restricting her vaginal orgasms, by age 50 she will have a 5% higher chance of developing ovarian cancer.
    6. I also have evidence from doctors that keeping her in chastity is not good for her vaginal health, but I would rather believe stuff I read off "male dominance/female submission" websites... or that great panicle of research knowledge ~ Pornhub (I'm sorry, are you fkn kidding me with this?)
    7. We have anal a lot, piv enough to keep her from crawling the walls, and things move forward.
    8. I get bored with not getting enthusiastic, passionate, piv monkey sex so I convince her to let me have a girlfriend to have sex with.
    9. She goes along because she loves me and doesn’t want me to leave her.
    10. My new squeeze is not submissive to me and a wildcat in bed.  She wouldn’t let me near her ass.
    11. Circumstances change.  We decide to move my squeeze into our house.
    12. I get all hot and bothered having two hot, sexy women in the house.  I decide to have anal sex with my primary in front of my squeeze without asking my primary if that’s cool with her.  Then I have piv sex with my squeeze in front of my primary who I have locked in chastity and have had for a while. I do this “knowing” based on our history that my primary is not submissive to other women.
  • THAT’S AS FAR AS THIS HAS GONE IN REVERSE… BUT LET’S CARRY IT OUT!
  1. Realizing this is what I’ve been wanting, someone who loves me enough to let me do what I want with them and someone to give me wildcat sex… I consciously or unconsciously devise a plan.
  2. We continue this play.  Me having anal with primary in front of squeeze and then piv in front of her while she’s in chastity.  I may say things like wow, wouldn’t the two of you look great together.  She tastes really good.  Would you like to taste her?
  3. And down the rabbit hole we go.

 

So tell me.  Just down through #11, forget the supposition of 13 & 14...

If a man was doing this to a woman would you think he was an awesome dude or a POS for treating her this way?  Just thought that would be an interesting way to illustrate this for you all.

 

I truly am out of here.

 

Everyone stay safe and well.

 

Stan

ReplyQuote
Posted : 22/02/2021 10:17 pm
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