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Is it wrong? Bad? S...
 

Is it wrong? Bad? Should I feel guilty?  

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Emma
 Emma
(@evolvingyourman_ivcr4j)
Member Admin

I was going to write a blog post about this but I couldn't really arrange my thoughts so I figured that I might just post in the forum until I gain some more perspective.

Is chastity wrong? It is certainly manipulative but when I am manipulating the relationship for the good of the relationship, is that bad? Orgasm denial play is certainly consensual and something that we both enjoy. Despite that, could it somehow be bad or wrong?

I've received a couple emails about this so I'd love to get some additional perspective from anyone that might have an opinion.

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Posted : 22/10/2019 11:06 pm
Birdstrike
(@birdstrike)
Active Member

That's an ethical, almost theological question! I'll give it a try. . .

It is certainly manipulative. One could also argue that it is unnatural, and I'm sure few traditional religions would endorse it. 

But but being the social things that we are, humans have been "self-programming" themselves all along! We're flexible and experimental - so the manipulation charge is insufficient by itself. In this case, BOTH parties consent, so there's no deception. Regarding the impact, it commandeers nature - but the effect seems to bring each partner closer together. That's something even a dogmatic religion should appreciate. 

No lies? Positive outcome? Unless some sort of health issue were to be established, I don't see a problem! 'Just my two cents.

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Posted : 23/10/2019 8:22 am
Birdstrike
(@birdstrike)
Active Member

Oh, and P. S.: 

Regular Christian "chastity" (i.e., monogamy) could be said to "violate nature" itself, and self-control - ESPECIALLY with regard to sex - has been a virtue for all of recorded history. With regard to Christianity, Christians are all expected to be under a form of chastity, and even celibacy for those who are not married. 

They just didn't have cb6000's back then, that's all. . . 🙂

 

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Posted : 23/10/2019 8:28 am
jc5200
(@jc5200)
Active Member

Oh hell no, you shouldn't feel guilty! He loves it doesn't he? Two consenting adults, I see no reason for any feelings of guilt. Orgasm control is something you give to him and I'm sure he's immensely grateful for it.

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Posted : 23/10/2019 3:50 pm
Dplaything
(@dplaything)
Active Member
Posted by: @jc5200

Oh hell no, you shouldn't feel guilty! He loves it doesn't he? Two consenting adults, I see no reason for any feelings of guilt. Orgasm control is something you give to him and I'm sure he's immensely grateful for it.

Nice answer.

A little longer version - the question is by who's standard, ethics or values are judging it to be good or bad?  We all have our personal ethics by which we live, some are common among reasonable people (e.g., murder is bad) and others are more individual and often conflict with others (e.g. frugality, consensual non-monogamy, timeliness, etc.).  We often live our lives in the "should" world, trying to match up with other's ethics/values when they don't fit us (classic example - trying to be who our parents what us to be).  Chastity is definitely an individual ethic/value, so what others think is irrelevant to your decision.

As for being manipulative, here is a definition I found online:

   1. characterized by unscrupulous control of a situation or person.  "she was sly, selfish, and manipulative"
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Posted : 23/10/2019 5:46 pm
Tom Allen
(@tom-allen)
Active Member

I follow some of the other "Christian sex" blogs, and similar questions come up about different aspects. 

Here's the thing about chastity play: you have *both* consented to a relationship in which he has agreed to allow you to ration his orgasms according to some kind of schedule/point system/random/whatever circumstances. 

Not sure where the "wrong" comes in, except in the sense that many of us have this idea that somethign kinky is wrong... or at least, not quite right. 

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Posted : 23/10/2019 10:52 pm
Patches
(@patches)
Eminent Member

Chastity aside, anything could be wrong if you've manipulated someone to agree to something against their will. If all parties are in full understanding, and if it isn't harmful, there shouldn't be an issue. I'd have concerns about someone I was with if they agreed to something they didn't really agree to. Regardless of topic.

Is what you're doing what you want to be doing? And are you doing it with the person you want to be with?

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Posted : 24/10/2019 10:44 pm
jd
 jd
(@jd)
Active Member

Emma,

 

I don’t think you should feel guilty or that there is anything wrong with chastity, with what you do or what you say you do. I wonder why you are asking. Do you at some level feel guilty or bad?  I hope that you are not the recipient of harsh or hostile email messages.  In general I would say that the project of your blog is one that is fundamentally generous to us strangers, sharing aspects of a private relationship because you think there may be some value there for others. You create a space where many and any may express private thoughts both intimately and anonymously.

 

I think that one avoids guilt or “wrongness” in a chastity relationship, D/s or asymmetric relationship through both consent and compassion. Consent is rarely perfect in relationships, and it’s entirely unlike the commitment one makes on a a 30 year mortgage where there is effectively no going back without repaying the debt in full. Consent to give up orgasms or control needs to be tempered by the compassion of the one who has taken or been given the power. Although we obviously only know those aspects of yours and Kevin’s relationship, which include chastity, domination, denial, which you have chosen to share, There is plenty in this blog to suggest that Kevin reads it and his contributions in the past certainly have suggested that he consents, perhaps with a bit of hesitation to some things, but I suspect ultimately he does so with a somewhat delirious pleasure.

 

From where I sit in the world I don’t know what is real and what is fantasy.  I think there certainly are a lot of harsh things written about denial, chastity or domination (probably by men) that take a certain slant on statements like “be careful what you wish for” or “we’re never going back “ where these statements are linked to humiliation and demeaning activity and where the individual offering the gift of his or her submission is not valued, and neither is that gift. I think the prevalence of this stuff in the chastity, FLR , femdom writing on the internet may unfortunately colors some readers’ reading.

 

I sometimes think that pleasure and sex for me(n) is(was) a pool with a whirlpool in the center and orgasm is what happens upon getting out by passing through the drain that creates the current and thus the pleasure. A woman denying her man orgasm is helping him to enjoy the pool for longer and teaching him to swim with or against a current that might otherwise be overwhelming. I do think at some level it’s her pool and swimming comes more naturally to her.

 

JD

 

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Posted : 24/10/2019 10:54 pm
Bill
 Bill
(@bill)
Active Member

"The only thing worse than a cock tease is a slut" is the mantra that my wife grew up with.    I am not sure where she got this from, but it made orgasm control very unnatural for her.    She questioned why I would want that, and thought that by teasing and denying me, it would make her feel the opposite of sexy.     The reality is that by controlling a man's orgasms, you are giving your partner the most intense orgasms of his life (although much less frequently).   Most men just experience a mediocre orgasm .1 percent of their life.   A man with his cock locked by his spouse will spend 99.9 percent of his time in a pre-orgams state literally leaking with excitement for their spouse.    For me horny is happy, and in this state nothing gets me down.   I feel like I have the energy level of when I was 18, and the passion for my wife to match.    It creates a level of intimacy that I never want to lose.

You should feel far worse about the hundreds of millions of unlocked cocks that were never blessed to find a partner willing to help them experience this.

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Posted : 26/10/2019 6:48 pm
spinpole2001
(@spinpole2001)
Eminent Member

Emma, I dont see any reason to feel guilty about any activity that you two, as rational right minded adults, have consented too. I agree with Tom Allen, I think society has conditioned us to see "kinky" things as wrong. I think we would all be better off if we changed that thought process non consensual things are wrong. Someone commented above ,we only see a small part of your relationship with Kevin but from my view point you two should be held up as more of a role model on how communication is supposed to work in a relationship. #Couplegoals! 

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Posted : 27/10/2019 11:37 am
Buellford liked
jmn
 jmn
(@jmn)
Active Member

I think this is a really interesting topic. Over the past while, I worked on writing something that tries to fully answer this question, but I think it’s way too long to post here. Still, I thought I’d share a section of what I came up with. This part doesn’t get into chastity. It just talks about society’s attitude toward women taking the lead in relationships. Anyway, here it is:

After ages of men holding far more power than women (and over women), both in and out of the home, society has started to focus on the importance of gender equality. While men were once generally recognized as the de facto leaders of their households, the common view in progressive societies has shifted toward believing that power in relationships should be divided equally and that neither partner should be able to control the other. Unequal power dynamics in relationships are often automatically assumed to be abusive, which they certainly can be.

Society’s response to sexist power dynamics in relationships seems to have overshot the problem and done less to resolve this sexism than it could have if the response had been better aimed at the actual problem. Society no longer tolerates men behaving abusively toward their partners, and women are more often asserting their right to be equal partners in their relationship. However, most people seem not to care if a man appears to be the “head of the household,” as long as it doesn’t look abusive and it seems that the couple is happy with the arrangement. Most people don’t give it a thought, while others will excuse it as a “traditional relationship.”

On the other hand, people are far less comfortable seeing a relationship where the woman appears to be the head of the household. People will think of the man as “whipped,” or they will talk about “poor John” because his wife “wears the pants” and “bosses him around.” Even people we would think of as feminists often think in these terms. Unlike with “traditional relationships,” there is no nice euphemism for a relationship where the woman takes the lead. Even neutral descriptions like “female-led relationship” and “wife-led marriage” are associated with something strange and extreme.

Society doesn’t actually seem to take issue with unequal power dynamics in relationships. Its real concern is with unequal power dynamics that are imposed on one partner or that are otherwise abusive. The reality is that letting someone take the lead can often work very well for some couples, as long as it is something they both want and are happy with, and as long as it is not abusive. Some people thrive and are happier under a good leader. Society does not actually want to take this option away from couples, but by letting ourselves believe that unequal power dynamics, themselves, are what we are concerned with, we have left the door open to making exceptions for the “traditional relationships” that we are accustomed to seeing, without accepting the idea that women can also lead. Not only are women denied the opportunity to lead, but men who might be much happier letting their partner lead are instilled with the idea that this is not okay.

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Posted : 28/11/2019 2:23 am
spinpole2001
(@spinpole2001)
Eminent Member

@jmn

This is a really a thoughtful take on the concept of power dynamics. I for one would love to read more of your writing on the subject. Maybe split it up into a few different posts if you think its too long. 

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Posted : 28/11/2019 12:18 pm
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