About Him · Chastity & Orgasm Denial

Orgasm Denial: Is Denying Your Husband’s Orgasm Manipulative?

There is little question that orgasm denial is manipulation of something by someone. The real question is whether you are manipulating something (the body) or someone (the husband). Specifically, what exactly is being manipulated? The word manipulative is typically used in the negative context but is it really negative all of the time? The dictionary defines manipulation as unscrupulous control over a situation or person. Unscrupulous of course means not having moral principals, not honest or fair. My take is that manipulation of a situation is very mechanical and measured while manipulation of a person can be negative and occur with a cost to that person.

Now that we’ve ironed out the definition, I’d like to frame my response as either something you do with your partner or something you do to your partner. If you work together to manipulate your husband’s sex drive by way of his orgasm then you are working with him to harness the power of his body and hormones. If you are using orgasm control to manipulate your husband and make him do your bidding than you are being manipulative of your partner. Directly manipulating your partner may be great in a D/s context but I don’t feel that it is beneficial for mainstream vanilla relationships to which my blog is geared. For the purpose of this blog, we will talk about working together to manipulate his body in a way that benefits the greater good of the relationship.

In some relationships, men have been trained and conditioned by women into becoming financial or emotional slaves. This is neither healthy nor sustainable in a long term relationship. As compensation for sticking around, men are given periodic use of the woman’s vagina as a form of carnal payment or relationship currency. A relationship based on this sort of dynamic is an emotionally abusive relationship and it should be seen as such. The book “The Manipulated Man” by Esther Vilar is a very interesting look into antifeminism and male perspective and the full text is linked above. Although I don’t feel that women are inherently less sexual than men, I feel like women have a greater control of sexual urges than men do. This means that women are capable of being more sexually manipulative by using their body for purposes other than outright carnal pleasure. Even if it isn’t an intention from the onset, I know that I take a more measured approach to sex than many men do. I assume (perhaps wrongfully) that other women take a similarly analytic approach to sex where I weigh the pros and cons of each encounter.

I feel like I’ve gotten this far and haven’t actually gotten to my point yet, as is typically the case with my disjointed writing style. The point of this blog is that orgasm denial in your relationship should be an exercise in teamwork and not manipulation. Through orgasm denial, you can unlock a caring and loving relationship that fosters compersion, by understanding his orgasm and sexual response cycle. Men are conditioned to be very physical and look to physical affection to indirectly receive emotional validation to ultimately feel love. Using orgasm control and pegging, you can help your guy unlock a new and exciting emotional side. Ultimately this comes back to the balance of genders that all of us have. I don’t know how much of our upbringing is nature vs nurture but I do know that our society has unfairly stunted the emotional growth of every man that I’ve ever known intimately. There are walls and barriers created by parents, church and friends that must be torn down if there is any hope of having a meaningful emotional connection.

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Headtrip

Permitted manipulation, is that a thing? If so it would describe us better than “teamwork”. I could never argue that her manipulation of me is bad or abusive, but it is definitely her taking the reigns, not “us”. Chastity makes me a much better husband (yes, we got married recently, YAY), it totally enhances the relationship, my openness, and our connection (haven’t gotten to “compersion” at least yet). But once I am out my brain quickly starts going back to the old me and she usually has to manipulate me back in. I know it is for my/our own good, but it still goes against my nature (or is that nurture, you bring up a good point there) and I resist. Maybe this will still change in time.

mstara

We use chastity to manipulate my husband’s sex drive by way of his orgasm and so I consider that we are working together.
The fact that he craves being locked, and feels ‘nude’ without his cage on, reinforces to me that this is a mutually desired activity.
Does he sometimes want to cum, but I don’t let him? Yes of course but I learned early on that what he sometimes says and what he actually wants aren’t always the same. It’s taken a while, and occasionally I do still get it wrong, but now I have pretty much learned that most of the time him asking to be unlocked isn’t what he actually wants.
However I can’t imagine using it to make him do anything that he didn’t want and in fact I’d classify this type of manipulation as abusive.

HappyCuckold

“Does he sometimes want to cum, but I don’t let him? Yes of course but I learned early on that what he sometimes says and what he actually wants aren’t always the same.”

I think that is a good point, Mstara. I have also had the experience of not being sure whether I want to be allowed to cum. For example, when I go down on my wife, I get super aroused, and the arousal is enhanced by the thought that she may or may not allow me cum after she has had an orgasm. In that situation, I am sometimes unsure what I want. I am grateful if she allows me to cum because orgasms feel great. But I also like that she sometimes denies me an orgasm because that makes me feel so submissive. Either way, I like leaving it up to her to decide what I want. I want what she wants for me.

ejaculatoryorgasm

You want to know what keeps me 100% focused on only my woman only? Her , giving , honesty ,open attitude towards me. The fact that she wants me to experience pleasure in high amounts every time we have sex ( just like I want her to feel as well) makes it easy to be faithful and enthusiastic about her. Her willingness is what makes me willing to do ANY thing to pkease her in return. Not prevention and limitation and manipulation. Ya ll sound like some caveman bitches. Thats why you get treated lime hoes.

Headtrip

His post did serve a purpose however: it highlighted how correct your blog was. To the “outside” world EMC is mostly considered manipulation in the negative way. And by that, widely held, definition I am not being manipulated. I signed up for this (even though our relationship beforehand was much as Mr. Orgasm describes his), I regularly re-sign up for it, and I even asked her to marry me knowing what lifestyle was implied. So I change my vote and admit I am in a partnership with my love even if the fun or kinkier side of that does involve some transfer of control in return for a far greater return (that someone who is not into or tried chastity would never understand).

Headtrip

EMC = Enforced Male Chastity. The “E” changes so much. It gives the appearance of “bad” manipulation to outside observers but it really drives the hormones/”high”/satisfaction for some of us who participate. Still don’t know why and haven’t heard an explanation that resonates.

Related question: does your definition of “compersion” imply a 3rd person? Some do, and many (including myself) are not ready for this. I think it gives the word a negative connotation. But for sure I feel joy at my wifes orgasms – MUCH moreso when locked. It’s amazing and doesn’t matter how much or how recent I have been satisfied.

jd

Dear Emma,
Thanks for this thoughtful and interesting post. My comments are based on interest in the subject, reading, observation thought experiments with an N of 1 and not much on practice. In the larger and mostly internet based conversation about male chastity that I’m exposed to the themes of permanent chastity, “be careful what you wish for,” non-consensual chastity, chastity as the legitimate penalty for male partner inadequacy- often related to his anatomy or lack of stamina, are so omnipresent that more serious efforts to discuss chastity and male orgasm control as a constructive means of mutually enriching a relationship can so easily be overshadowed by sexy images with glib captions that eroticize and capitalize on male insecurity. And so I think your efforts to stake out some ground for discussion of chastity and orgasm control that isn’t hyperbolic is really worthwhile. I think that your distinction between orgasm control being a practice you can do with a partner or to you partner is an essential one. Beyond the benefits of what a woman may bring to her man’s sexuality and helping to harness his energy I have sometimes found myself thinking while reading different posts on your site about different ways that men may talk about their efforts at self-imposed male orgasm and ejaculation control. I am thinking about sometimes humorously described advice or recommendations. A man might masturbates before sex, or may try to distract himself from the sex he is having with his partner by thinking of things on his to do list, his work or other non-sexy things so as to delay his orgasm. While these ideas may work, be said in jest and/or be necessary for some, I think that they point to a problem that men can experience during sex which is that their anatomy or physiology may distract them from remaining present if they want to continue participating. For some men I think there can be bit of a double bind we need sex to emotionally connect to their partners but during sex, particularly penetrative sex, we may feel the need to disconnect from our partner and the shared moment in order to make that moment last and have some durability. A woman’s engagement in her man’s orgasm control may help to overcome this predicament.

JD

subhubphx

“… more serious efforts to discuss chastity and male orgasm control as a constructive means of mutually enriching a relationship can so easily be overshadowed by sexy images with glib captions that eroticize and capitalize on male insecurity.”

This is so very nicely said my friend. It’s absolutely true! I think it goes toward the concept of porn rarely reflects real life. The following is genius as well:

While these ideas may work, be said in jest and/or be necessary for some, I think that they point to a problem that men can experience during sex which is that their anatomy or physiology may distract them from remaining present if they want to continue participating. For some men I think there can be bit of a double bind we need sex to emotionally connect to their partners but during sex, particularly penetrative sex, we may feel the need to disconnect from our partner and the shared moment in order to make that moment last and have some durability. A woman’s engagement in her man’s orgasm control may help to overcome this predicament.”

Btw, it’s go see around old friend!

Russ195

It’s not manipulation if it is desired by the male. For me, male chastity just helps the male control his masturbation habit and not waste sexual energy on it. Use that energy for your wife and pleasing her. If the male masturbates, that energy is lost and nearly all males have the desire to masturbate. Chastity just helps control it.

LocknKey

Don’t you mean “lock up” a caring, loving, exciting, emotional husband?

Ron

Denying your man’s orgasm is indeed manipulative, but it’s exactly what he wants. The number of men who want to engage in this, vastly out number the women that do. Chastity play is usually sought after by men, not women, although there will always be exceptions. Men who participate, choose their key holders carefully. Often there is written or verbal conditions that both agree on. Men usually initiate orgasm control, and their female partners will either find benefit from it or not.
I personally wanted to try chastity, even got my wife interested. I decided to wait to see if she would run with it, but it seems she has lost interest. In my fantasy, locking me in chastity is her decision. It just doesn’t work for me if it isn’t.

Most of the readers of your site are either submissive men who think you’re a goddess or dominant women, semi – dominant women with men who asked them for a female led relationship and are here seeking advice or strategies.

Can I please hear from the women here who “initiated” FLR with a partner who was reluctant, hesitant, unsure? I haven’t seen comments where any of you initiated FLR without some input from your man that he was seeking this type of relationship. I’m sure you’re out there but predominantly the women on this site were asked by their men to lead.

I’m one of the few dominant males who have stuck around to comment. I did so because I think I see things differently than a submissive male. I don’t see Kevin as a typical submissive male, so I think I may share more in common with him than some of the submissive men here.

It took a bit of time but and helped me understand more of the submissive male standpoint. I don’t have any issues with chastity, orgasm control, pegging, or anything else that occurs in a flr… if the male is submissive and has made it known through action or deed that this is what he seeks.
Even as states: “Does he sometimes want to cum, but I don’t let him? Yes of course but I learned early on that what he sometimes says and what he actually wants aren’t always the same.” I now understand how this is what a submissive man wants. He wants to be occasionally denied when he wants to cum, have sex, whatever else he may have wanted.

But the real question is: Is any of this ever what Kevin wanted? So Emma, The real question becomes: Is denying Kevin orgasms manipulative? Maybe you can answer your own question with an examination of your relationship.

  1. Meet Kevin on Tinder (You don’t tell him you’re ONLY interested in relationships that include orgasm control and chastity)
  2. Start a normal relationship with Kevin having normal piv sex. Per Kevin’s words, you’re really good in bed. Sexual attraction grows.
  3. Once you are pretty sure he has emotional feelings for you also… you start playing your games.
  4. Starts with you quitting sex once you have an orgasm before he finishes… asking him to wait a few hours… then wait until the next morning… then wait…
  5. He asks you, “is this something you need” and you reply “I get bored in regular relationships.” Having done this in previous relationships and knowing this is what you want, was this not manipulative?
  6. You don’t reveal to him how having his oxy levels raised will make him more and more submissive.
  7. When you have his oxy levels high and his submissiveness is peaked, you introduce chastity and pegging.

You knew from the beginning that you don’t want a conventional sexual relationship, but you “entice” Kevin with a normal sexual relationship and then reveal your true self. That’s a huge “bait and switch” if you ask me. I would call that the “ultimate manipulation”.

You play games Emma ~ you planned and manipulated this relationship from the beginning. You aren’t honest Emma ~ you knew exactly what you wanted and didn’t tell Kevin until you had him “under your spell”

Why do I have a problem with that? It’s not what he wanted in a relationship. It’s what YOU want. He didn’t ask for ANY of this. Every bit of this is at your suggestion or direction. Even that wouldn’t matter too much to me, he’s a big boy, he could walk away.

The biggest reason I have a problem with your relationship is you had him under the influence of his hormones “before” you initiated the cage and pegging. Is that any different than drugging him? His hormones change his personality just like drugs, so I don’t see the difference.

The larger problem I have is that you have him on a release cycle that puts him in the greatest danger of prostate cancer ~ because it provides YOU the most entertainment.

Does he know this information? Does Kevin realize that a 7 day cycle will give him a 160% higher chance of prostate cancer at age 75 than someone who has 3 orgasms a week. Ejaculation Frequency and Risk of Prostate Cancer: Updated Results with an Additional Decade of Follow-up – PubMed (nih.gov)
I’ve seen you refute information like this on her blog saying there are so many factors affecting prostate cancer that “you can’t be sure”. BS! This is a conclusive study! It is normalized for all other mitigating factors. The data is clear. This is science, not opinion. Your 7 day cycle is the worst possible cycle for Kevin’s prostate health. You’re putting his health at risk for a sex game.

Does he know that wearing a chastity device overnight can potentially lead to ED? I doubt he has any clue. I doubt you’ve shown him the research. As in your blog, I’m sure you’ve dismissed the research by urologists because it serves your purpose. Why would we believe doctors who study penis health for a living?

That’s one of my biggest problems with your blog Emma. You profess to be an educated woman, and yet you dispute science and medical advice that doesn’t fit your script. The fact that you encourage others to do so in this blog is reckless and irresponsible.

How does this relationship enhance Kevin’s life? He gets to share you with other guys, get pegged as your most preferred form of sex (not his) ~ because his smaller penis, submissive nature ~ which is enhanced by his high oxy levels, and attraction to you… he let’s you do what you want with him, to him. This includes him being humiliated, belittled, embarrassed, and emasculated for your pleasure.

I still fail to see where any of that is love or how a person could find pleasure in perpetrating these acts on another human being, especially a person they profess to love. To me it’s more like seeing how far you can push, what they will put up with, without breaking the relationship permanently. How many guys did you push too far before Kevin?

Is this manipulative? You lied about who you were and what you wanted from the beginning. You got him under the hormone spell and you’ve pushed to see how much you can get him to do. If it’s not manipulative, why the games? Why not be honest about who you were and what you were seeking in the beginning? Oh that’s right, he would have bailed on you.

As I suggested before in private, to figure out whether you are manipulating him or not, you just have to release him. Remove him from chastity and make him orgasm 4 or 5 times a week for a month.

If at the end of that month he says “lock it up” then this is truly a “clear headed” decision he’s making. Good on you and happy pegging. Still don’t know where you’ll find the “lust” now that Andrew is gone and it doesn’t appear Kevin is interested in the hotwife lifestyle.

If however, once his hormone levels are normal again he tells you “no way” to being locked up, then you will know that the only reason he went along was because he was hormonally submissive due to his Oxy levels being altered = he was essentially drugged.

Of course, that’s a risk. You’ve got a lot of time invested getting Kevin into the perfect submissive state for your purposes. Would resetting his hormones derail all your efforts?

curioustolearn

I have to say, kudos to you for taking the time to articulate what many of us were probably thinking. Maybe I should follow suit.

I read a sentence from a previous post,

“…I pulled them both out of my mouth and asked them to reach down and stroke each other. Both of them reluctantly complied and they were half heartedly tugging on each other.”

and it crystalized some reflection with respect to my distanced observation of this blog…

I have to wonder if ‘the Kevin’ who started this relationship would have committed to a relationship with Emma if he knew his sex life would later consist of reluctantly fondling another man’s genitals. Another excerpt:

“…I told him that I wouldn’t mind if they wanted to hook up in whatever context that meant. Oral, touching, anal, I am just looking for everyone to enjoy each other.”

Right, so now Emma is all for unlocking Kevin, so long as its so he — a straight man — will engage in oral/anal sex with another man. A not-so-subtle power play. I have to roll my eyes at the unselfconscious statements that pop up in this blog like, ‘this isn’t a femdom blog’ and “I don’t want anything toxic in the bedroom.”

When I stumbled across the blog, it was mostly centered on the psychophysiological effects and benefits of male chastity…there was far less of the flagrant femdom signaling such as pegging, humiliation, power-posturing, covert/overt sexual reconditioning, cum eating, cuckolding, and now reluctant-bi. Maybe ‘coerced’ is too strong of a word. Now, thinking back to the initial tone of the earlier blog-posts, I find myself chuckling and shaking my head.

I initially enjoyed reading about the potential relationship benefits of chastity, but it didn’t take long to start to suspect that the emanation from which the rationale was derived was rooted in something deeper: Solipsism? Anger? Control.

Creating a fetish? The dog-clicker experiment? Straight up cluster B. From there on it was a bit like watching a car accident…the morbid fascination just kept me reading.

As an aside, some readers of your comment may take issue with your use of the phrase “under the hormone spell” but it can’t be any more true. I just saw a “random quote” in the side-bar that read,

“Each time I deny you, you’ll fall deeper under my spell until I am all you can think about.”

Again, more glib, unselfconscious platitudes.

The blog posts are generally framed within the assumed context of mutual respect and relational balance, but I have to wonder how Emma would navigate her jealousy if Kevin asked for a MFF threesome or another girlfriend. How would she answer if he asked if his penis could go into her anus in lieu of pegging once and a while. If Emma wasn’t able to work and Kevin was the breadwinner, how would she react to such a sordid list of directives and expectations for a stay-at-home partner?
There’s that adage, “The best tops know what its like to be a bottom.” I wonder if Emma has ever worn a chastity belt or had her orgasms regulated by someone else.

I too have an issue with Emma’s obviously selective use of research studies to support her health-narrative. It’s like, ‘just admit that some sexual practices aren’t the healthiest but you do them anyways.’ No one’s going to judge or kink-shame you…I’m a biochemist working in public health, so seeing health-related misinformation being spread on the internet bothers me for myriad reasons.

I do appreciate the pragmatic approach that Emma takes when breaking down the evolutionary/psychological roots of sexual attitudes and practices. In this way she does present herself as a reasonably educated person; she likely has a bachelors degree — almost certainly in the social sciences judging by the motifs contained in her writing style. All the same, the direction she goes when she’s running with some of the established theories often stretches these theories beyond what they’re intended to explain.

When Emma started to test the waters with cuckolding Kevin, I remember reading that she sort of wrote it off with a line of reasoning similar to, “Yeah, well I need newness and lust in my life, and when you’re with your long-term partner long enough, that interest and passion just fades.”

FACEPALM! Blog post after blog post is about how chastity can rekindle sexual interest…maybe Emma should invest in a chastity belt for herself! Great solution, rekindle sexual interest in Kevin by having sex with a man…who is not Kevin.

When she describes her loss of interest in Kevin over time, she’s describing the Coolidge effect, which is the tendency of humans to derive more arousal from novel partners, rather than the same repeated sexual partner. I have to wonder if she’s aware that the Coolidge effect is felt more strongly in males. Realistically speaking, there will be a time when Kevin becomes bored of Emma sexually. When this happens in relationships, the power games stop being perceived as a sexy tease and turn into an onerous burden.

Anyways, despite this comment being critical, I’m not here to preach and I wish Emma the best. To her credit she seems to be thoughtful, but the self-insight appears to be somewhat incomplete at times, potentially at the risk of Kevin’s emotions. These are adults entering middle-age, and each person can run their relationship however they want with out my two cents.

I’m not speaking disapprovingly of any type of sexual behavior, or kink-shaming. Emma usually leaves critical comments up to generate discussion so hopefully you’ll see this if you wanted to see how many thoughts harmonized with your post. I do wish Emma and Kevin the best and I hope they can continue to grow in their ability to love each other well.

I drank too much coffee and wrote an awful lot, so sorry about that.
Russell

subhubphx

In any case, I hope you stick around to experience more of this train wreck, I appreciate the well thought out post and agree that discussion can only lead to a better understanding of our differences in opinion.”

I admire you Emma, for several reasons. One of those is your innate ability to not get lured into a pissing contest with people that intend on having you (and yours) fit into their own personal templates on people are, or should be. It would be interesting to actually know what’s behind all that for them.

You’re the new Yoga Girl!

subhubphx

Hey, I get to think you are the new Yoga Girl if I want. *smile

Perhaps it’s your humbleness talking but you are exceedingly confident and your posts are very prescriptive and helpful. I know they are for Ms. K. and I. We’ve learned so much in our journey and have advanced our marriage greatly from the topics you set out, your words and even the words of the wonderful members as well.

Yes, we’re all going to always be trying to figure it all out, just like Yoga Girl did and likely still does. Will we ever really get it sorted out? Probably not but as long as we make progress with the ones we love, we’ll be doing better than most.

HappyCuckold

Russell, I am not going to answer your post in detail because Emma has ably answered you herself. I just want to comment on the following:

”When Emma started to test the waters with cuckolding Kevin, I remember reading that she sort of wrote it off with a line of reasoning similar to, “Yeah, well I need newness and lust in my life, and when you’re with your long-term partner long enough, that interest and passion just fades.

FACEPALM! Blog post after blog post is about how chastity can rekindle sexual interest…maybe Emma should invest in a chastity belt for herself! Great solution, rekindle sexual interest in Kevin by having sex with a man…who is not Kevin..”

Cuckolding isn’t for everyone. Your sarcasm shows that it isn’t for you. But I don’t think you appreciate the erotic power of that kink for the cuckold himself. I think I can appreciate the erotic value of Emma and Kevin’s excursion into cuckolding based on my own experience. I introduced my wife to the idea of cuckolding. She was willing to try it for the reason Emma gave: the idea of having sex with someone new excited her. She wanted sexual variety, and when she tried it, she liked it. You mock the idea that Emma could “rekindle sexual interest in Kevin by having sex with a man…who is not Kevin.” But that’s exactly how it was for me and my wife. The feeling of being desired by both me and her lovers was so exciting for her that it reenergized our sex life. We had more sex, and more exciting sex, with one another than we had had for a long time. It’s not as though a woman has a fixed amount of sexual energy that is taken away from the husband and bestowed on the other man. Rather the excitement she gets from having a lover increases the sexual energy available to her husband. At least that’s how it was for us. That’s why I believe your concern about Kevin is probably misplaced.

curioustolearn

HappyCuckold, I was saddened that you interpreted my comment as sarcastic or mocking of your lifestyle practice. Subhubphx also commented that my post came off like the instigation of a pissing contest. That was not at all my intent, and if you felt mocked or disrespected, I am sorry. My reason for being here is to understand, not judge or tell anyone what to do. That’s why I’ve read for so long but never commented. If there’s one message I would want the people on this forum to hear from me, it’s that your feelings matter and you have incredible value, regardless of any attraction, practice or attitude you may have, engage in or hold.

As I articulated in my first comment, my suspicion is that Emma’s proximal motivation in cuckolding is not to increase her attraction for Kevin, but to monopolize control and dominance – with an upregulated sex drive spilling over into Kevin as an incidental and peripheral benefit. If the purpose of cuckolding is to increase coupled intimacy between primary partners, I don’t think that the cuckoldress would object to the male taking a second girlfriend. But if this is about dominance, she will restrict not only his orgasms but his sexual access to other (female) partners. And, honestly, more power to her (literally), because it’s impossible to separate power from sex. It’s not for me to pass judgment on these practices so long as both partners are cognizant of and consenting to the true dynamics at play. But let’s just call a spade a spade: The chastity is not primarily about focusing relational energy, the pegging is not about prostate beneficence and the cuckolding is not about increasing relational intimacy: these are primarily about behavioral manipulation and power exchange.

I say it again, it is not for me to pass judgement on any sexual proclivity or praxis; however, I have absolutely no problem passing judgement on untruthfulness. When the stakes are this high, not being honest and transparent about one’s motives is wrong.

And all of this feels monotonously dishonest. For discussion’s sake, let’s give Emma the benefit of the doubt and assume that she truly lacks insight into the subconscious root of these sexual proclivities. After all, we’re talking about the subconscious – it’s not easily understood without a capacity for lucid introspection. If it’s true that she is simply “exploring,” “experimenting,” “figuring things out” and “evolving” herself then that is all well and good, but bear in mind that experimentation has both risk and cost. I’m a scientist and I think about study design and risk assessment all the time. My concern for Kevin is that he’s committed to be led by a person whose assumed lack of self-insight casts doubt on her ability to competently and safely navigate the complex emotional landscape of polygamy. And it is glaringly obvious that the risk and cost of all this experimentation will be assumed by and paid for disproportionately by Kevin. 

Last edited 23 days ago by curioustolearn
HappyCuckold

Curioustolearn, you start off saying you don’t mean to pass judgment on anyone’s lifestyle. Then you go on to pass judgment with a vengeance. You say you are a scientist, but presuming to have greater insight into “the subconscious root of [Emma’s] sexual proclivities” than Emma does shows an unscientific lack of epistemic humility.

You write: . “But let’s just call a spade a spade: The chastity is not primarily about focusing relational energy, the pegging is not about prostate beneficence and the cuckolding is not about increasing relational intimacy: these are primarily about behavioral manipulation and power exchange.”

Of course they are about “power exchange.” You act as though power exchange is some kind of hidden agenda on Emma’s part, an agenda that you have discovered by means of your psychoanalytic insight into Emma’s subconscious. But Emma hasn’t tried to hide the power exchange aspect of her relationship with Kevin. When a man agrees to let a woman lock his penis in a chastity cage, he is pretty explicitly consenting to a power exchange, isn’t he? Your notion that engaging in power exchange and “increasing relational intimacy” are mutually exclusive goals is an invalid logical inference. Power exchange is the method; increasing relational intimacy is the goal.

You say you don’t mean to pass judgment on the cuckolding lifestyle. Then you contradict yourself by saying that the cuckoldress shouldn’t object to the male having a second girlfriend. If it is agreed that both partners can have sex with other people, that’s an open relationship. There’s nothing wrong with that, but it’s not cuckolding. You believe that the Cuckold can’t possibly be content with the unfairness of having to be be faithful to his wife while his wife is free to have sex with other men. But that’s the whole point: it’s another form of power exchange. You obviously aren’t cut out for the cuckolding lifestyle because you have no inkling how sexually exciting and emotionally enriching that power exchange is to some of us. You look at Kevin’s situation and feel indignant about Emma’s unfair treatment of him. I look at Kevin’s situation and think how lucky he is.

You and Stan both see Kevin as a victim who needs to be rescued from Emma because you can’t imagine a man wanting the kind of power exchange Kevin and Emma have. I see Kevin as an autonomous adult with the power to consent or not to consent to Emma’s control.

curioustolearn

HC,
This is monotonous. Emma writes post after post about the “relationship benefits of chastity” and the way she framed it (at least in the beginning) were for reasons independent of power exchange. It’s not about focusing a man’s energy towards intimacy at all. Otherwise the happy couple could just try salsa dancing classes. This is all about power exchange, and sexual partners should always be honest about the reasons for desiring any sexual practice, upfront.

Again, it’s the dishonesty that annoys me, not a female getting off on dominating someone or a male being cuckolded. You do you. I presume that when you proposed the cuckolding idea to your partner, you two were pretty explicit about your motives.

Listen, if my 4 year old girl got up onto the counter and unlatched the cookie jar, I wouldn’t care that she liked cookies. I really wouldn’t care if when I asked her who did it, she told the truth. But if she told me our dog Tango unlatched the jar and ate the cookies, I would need to have a discussion with her about dishonesty. If she continued to insist time after time that it was in fact Tango who was eating the cookies, I would become first very annoyed and then concerned, because she might tell this lie enough to begin believe it herself, and moreover she may be spreading this lie to other children (that dogs can open latches).

I definitely understand how chastity can make a person feel — in a 16 month stretch of singleness within 2014 to 2015 I practiced semen retention and didn’t masturbate for 18 months. No cage or keyholder necessary; just willpower.

Though I’ve never practiced it, I can see how the role reversal and power-exchange of pegging could be hot.

Cuckolding? I’m not cut out for it as you say, but I can hypothesize how such visceral emotions could be harvested, sexualized and permutated for excitement.

I get that you’re really into this lifestyle and you’ll rush to the defense of anyone engaged in this practice, so I’m not going to sway your opinion. I’ve wasted enough time here and I’m finished with reading this blog because no one will call a spade a spade.

Russell

subhubphx

I’ve wasted enough time here and I’m finished with reading this blog because no one will call a spade a spade.”

I wish you wouldn’t. I’m afraid that the announcement of your departure ahead of your actual may cause some to interpret those words as I’m leaving because nobody here will agree with me. Well the exception being Stan. It’s sort of an expected destination in the natural course of a pissing contest, as it were, for some, and it’s always unfortunate when it is.

I don’t understand why anyone here feels the burden of being right when it comes to judging and labeling the manner in which others live their lives. Perhaps your departure is an inevitable outcome Russell. After all, not caring (anymore) is clearly your prerogative, but I will suggest that just taking your ball and going home does nothing for any of us, and you, in terms of reasonable discord among reasonable people.

There’s plenty of things that are said and done by the people in the small community of this blog, including, Emma, that I don’t agree with nor have an interest in pursuing. In the absence of illegal, dangerous or evil behavior such as child or spouse abuse, rape, assault, etc., I do revel in the bliss others enjoy when viewed in the “it works for them” light.

Who knows, I suppose it’s possible over time, minds and circumstances change and resistance to non-monogamy will fade in the mind of my beloved Mistress Wife, but until and unless it does, It’s a non-starter. If she were to wake up one and want to take on another lover, that is and will remain her option and choice because in our loving marriage, it is not a hard limit. Would I like it if she does? Not likely, but I have enough trust and respect for our relationship and our respective roles in it to know that she would make that decision on our behalf, and in the end, I’d be good with it. Compersion does funny things to a person. It would be exact time for flawless execution of the deep and constant communication between us, to be relied upon to preserve, nurture and grow our sacred love for each other.

Wouldn’t it be great if we could find a virtual version of sitting around a table with a bottle of 18 yo single malt Scotch and a bucket of ice in the middle, and talk shit out? Yeah, that would be great. Cheers!

Brian

Stan,

Virtually nobody is honest when they are in the dating phase of relationship. Shots fired at Emma on that is a little, well, you could fire those shots at anyone and be right. And thats not just for humans. Most animals fake in any number of ways to attract a mate. It might not be all that honest, but its how we evolved.

As to endangering. There are studies that say more orgasms, less prostate cancer. There are studies that say the opposite. But of the ones that say less cancer, none of them say why there is less cancer. Is it that the act of orgasming that often is the cause? Is it that men who want to orgasm that often have a makeup that is less cancer prone, i.e. if those same men didn’t, would the instances be higher?

And having Kevin under her spell. Again. Isn’t that normal? People are who they are in part by the dynamic of a relationship. As soon as they are not in that relationship, they can be quite different, and when they get into another relationship, they can be yet another person. Again, this is how humans function.

Seriously Stan, I do understand the sentiment, but buddy, you are living on earth. As soon as we are truly honest with our selves, its pretty much all manipulation. Granted you might be the exception to the rule, but I have yet to meet anyone myself included that is not manipulating.

subhubphx

@Stan

It took a bit of time but @HappyCuckold and @subhubphx helped me understand more of the submissive male standpoint. I don’t have any issues with chastity, orgasm control, pegging, or anything else that occurs in a flr… if the male is submissive and has made it known through action or deed that this is what he seeks.”

Thanks for the shoutout. As a point of clarity, and speaking only for myself, I do make the distinction between being a submissive man in general, and being a submissive husband to my beautiful Mistress Wife. I’m not a submissive man. In all aspects of my life, from personal to business and all areas in between, I am a thoughtful, caring, loving dominant person. Being a leader of people is something that brings joy to my heart. A brilliant comment (I believed) was made elsewhere on this site (sorry, I can’t remember who or where) that said (paraphrasing) ‘I’m not submissive to women, I am submissive to my Wife’.

There are many variations when it comes to submissives, be they men or women, which makes the inevitable labeling that follows a tricky thing to navigate. What people do, feel and say within the context of their intimate relationships is of course between them. As such, it’s dangerous to assume anything in particular. Yes, Emma does share a lot of her personal life with us, and for that I am appreciative. Even still, none of us knows Emma well enough to judge her or Kevin within the private context of their lives together.

Although I cannot speak from experience on the non-monogamy front, I can tell you pretty much everything else you described as being deceitful or negatively manipulative exists in my marriage. For us, all of it works exceedingly well in our journey. I suppose it has everything to do with the uniqueness of our specific love for each that allows for that. I doubt very seriously if either of us could or would behave in the same fashion if we found ourselves with a different partner. I hope that makes some sense.

I’m not sure I understand where your angst/frustration towards our host comes from. It’s natural for each of us to be infatuated with Emma and her life, and in doing so, sometimes we begin to measure her life and situation with our own, unique templates. In addition, perhaps also identifying as a male Dominant only exasperates those feelings for you in that Emma is firmly in control of her life and the pleasure in life she seeks. It is true what you said “…  he’s a big boy, he could walk away.”. I suspect very strongly that being with and subject to Emma is exactly where Kevin finds his joy. I know that works for me with my Wife.

HappyCuckold

Subhubphx, I think you make a useful distinction when you say that you are a “submissive husband” but not “a submissive man in general”. Our desire to be submissive to our wives is a sexual kink. It does not mean we are weak willed push-overs beyond the consensual parameters of our intimate relationships. I believe that Stan’s description of guys like us as “submissive” and guys like him as “dominant” is overly simplistic. For some reason, he thinks Kevin is a naturally dominant man like him who must be saved from Emma before she turns him into a submissive man like us. To me the idea that Emma could enslave and victimize a dominant man seems implausible. For that to be possible, so-called dominant men would have to be weaker than submissives like us.

subhubphx

“Not everything fits easily into our systems of classification. The world might be, it turns out, too complicated for us to know.”

–  Helen Macdonald

Thank you HC. I appreciate the recognition of the distinction. Humans seem to have a curious need to classify nearly everything into a neat little box that tends to support their beliefs and opinions of how life, the world and people should be categorized. From those beliefs, they (we humans) tend construe them as fact and as such, begin to judge the validity or legitimacy of reality, and how reality should look.

Whether Stan, or anyone else for that matter, is right or wrong, matters only to the extent we allow it in our own minds. We each choose how we feel about others opinions or our perceived view of their existence. Stress, for me anyway, is defined as the gap between perception and reality. In other words, we choose our perceptions and as such, our happiness.

The best bit of advice I ever heard was given to me by father when I was a young man. “You either manipulate, or you get manipulated. There is no in between. If you find yourself lucky enough to surround yourself with people that are, the manipulation will good, for them and for you.” I’ve learned over the years that essential ingredients in good manipulation are integrity, honor, intelligence, actual communication and trust. We humans fail to be perfect in any of those categories so among them, intelligence is the most important. It’s what allows us to separate the bullshit from reality, thereby allowing us to best minimize the gap between our perception and reality. In other words, it’s the key to happiness.

The reality of what Emma and kevin do with and to each other cannot possibly be understood well enough by anyone other the two of them to pass any level of judgment based on reality. Their relationship, like mine, yours and everyone else’s is unique to them, and if it works for them, that’s the best anyone can hope for. To each their own. I try to spend very little time wondering or worrying whether or not someone could ever see the benefit of me, a big, tough, masculine smart, business man, know-it-all type (yeah, right), willfully asking my wife to accept my submission, in all it’s forms, to her for the rest of our lives together. Most people could never understand the unmitigated joy a man, a husband could wallow in merely by devoting his life to the goal of constant bliss in his wife’s life.

I agree, kevin does not need to be rescued from the perceived witchcraft style mind fuckery negative manipulation from Emma, because there is nothing for him to be rescued from. Like you said I suspect very strongly that being with and subject to Emma is exactly where Kevin finds his joy. I know that works for me with my Wife.”

I know that works for me and with my Wife as well. If kevin didn’t find happiness at the end of Emma’s leash and collar, he could simply remove it and be free. Like you, I suspect it’s exactly where he loves to be.

“Judgment says more about the labeler than the labeled”

–  Connor Franta

HappyCuckold

Emma, I agree with you that I oversimplified. It does run deeper than sexual kink, but sexual kink is the portal to that deeper place. I hope that makes sense.

subhubphx ~ I’m not sure I understand where your angst/frustration towards our host comes from.

I’ve spent a lifetime troubleshooting personnel issues. I’ve seen some incredibly stupid stunts perpetrated by young people meaning no harm, but doing harm none the less.

In this case I was worried about Kevin being manipulated and phytologically scarred and for Emma’s personal safety.

Emma holds a BA in psychology. I hold a BS in psychology. As a psychology paraprofessional there are standards we are held to. It is illegal to use our training to manipulate people. If everything isn’t above board and done with complete openness and honesty, we can be held accountable.

Emma HAS to be 100% honest and above board in all of her dealings with Kevin in this alt style relationship based on her education. There are things in the blog that led me to believe that she wasn’t completely forthright. Those things could lead her to prison. You can’t use your psychological training to manipulate people.

The problem is the blog has places where it talks about manipulation, not telling the whole truth, etc. THIS BLOG could be used against her in court if there was ever fallout and Kevin felt damaged. That’s why I keep telling her to document the agreements.

She clarified the issues I was concerned with, so I don’t fear for her safety any longer. I don’t want Kevin psychologically damaged and I don’t want to see Emma go to jail.

That’s it in a nutshell. Everyone has fun, nobody gets hurt.

Namaste bro,

Stan

subhubphx

Ok. Wow.

I don’t have a BS or a BA in psychology, nor am I an attorney, so who am I to argue with you or anyone about the relative risk of prison or other legal ramifications for a woman like Emma in her relationship with a man like Kevin … two people intimately involved with each other within the privacy of that relationship. That said, anything you or anyone can do to keep Emma out of prison for her behavior is appreciated.

I assume documentation and signed waivers are a good idea for anyone officially involved in in the psychology arena that is also intimately involved with another human that isn’t? Who knew that having fun for some necessitates such documentation of acknowledged approval and consent? What a crazy world we live in huh?

Last edited 21 days ago by subhubphx

I can sense some sarcasm in there bro. The BS/BA comment was just to illustrate Emma and I have similar education so “I know the rules” about the use of this knowledge. Those of you without this education may not.

If this was you, or Happy, or most of the guys on here, I wouldn’t have much fear. The difference ~ you all asked for what you’re getting. In this relationship ~ it’s what Emma wants, Kevin is just following. It may also be what Kevin wants, but it’s not Kevin asking for it, it’s Emma directing. That’s where the risk comes in.

I’m not running scare tactics or trying to dissuade anything she’s doing/they’re doing. I just want her to be safe and not do things that could jeopardize her future.

Crazy BS happens when people get mad at each other. I’ve told Emma to read the case studies.

Hypothetical: Kevin and Emma break up. Emma has found a “new” love of her life and Kevin is hurt. Kevin for some reason ends up in therapy because he’s having some psychological issues with the fact that he was encouraged to try some bi stuff, or whatever, and he did. Now it’s messing with him psychologically.

The therapist gets the whole story about how the relationship started as straight sex, then progressed to femdom, at the encouragement/insistence of Emma. Then the therapist finds out Emma has a degree in psychology.

The therapist is REQUIRED to contact the police at this point.

Then the sex crimes unit investigates. ~ IF Kevin says he was coerced or manipulated into these sexual practices in any way, then Emma goes to jail

It’s just that because of the dynamic ~ she initiated everything, Kevin followed, vs. Kevin asking for this, puts Emma at risk. Because of this, Emma has to be especially careful to make sure things are on the up and up, without even an appearance of impropriety.

You can think I’m full of bull. I encourage you to read up on all this stuff. I assume it’s on the internet. It’s in our school library system. I’m not trying to take the sexy out of this for these two but forewarned is forearmed.

One of my favorite case studies: A guy who agreed to be in chastity got pissed off at his wife (because she was going to extend his lock up) and told her he was done with it, to give him the key and unlock him.

She didn’t. He called the cops. She was charged with sexual assault. Now and forever more she will be a sex offender. She has to register, can’t go on school grounds, etc.

This is a true story. There are many like it. I don’t want Emma to ever end up being one.

THAT is an example what someone who is pissed off and verdictive can do in situations like these.

.

subhubphx

Being as thorough as you seem to be Emma, I’m sure that you have a file full of properly prepared Disclosures, Declarations, Affidavits and Consent forms signed by Kevin and Andrew, so you needn’t worry too much. That said, I’m willing to bet you do indeed look good in orange!

You can make jokes. It’s all good. Nobody who ever ended up on a police blotter ever expected to end up there.

I’m not talking about signing a bunch of contracts. I’m simply saying that the blog is full of comments that allude to deception, manipulation, experimentation with/on another human being.

Emma would be best served with getting some conversations she had with Kevin into the blog where he is specifically discussing what he likes, what he wants more of. Doesn’t even have to go into the blog, but she should have him write out what he wants and likes. Without those, this blog could easily be weaponized against Emma.

She states that she recommends “expectations” in writing when introducing a third into the relationship… so she probably already has things like this.

I’m an old man who has seen a lot of drama occur between people. Not saying any drama will ever occur here. But what if it did?

I talked to a friend of mine who is a practicing psychologist. 3+ decades in practice. He agrees. Due to Emma’s education, she could be held liable if Kevin “ever” felt harmed by this relationship.

Why take the chance. Make sure it’s documented and remove all possibility of future issues.

With that I’m also going to sign off and delete my account. I keep getting sucked back in because I’m a member and get notifications of new posts. Occasionally, I feel compelled to comment.

I really don’t have much more to offer as I’ve had off line conversations with Emma about any concerns I may have as well. She knows my concerns and can make her own decisions.

I’ve learned a tremendous amount in the short time I spent talking with you all. For that I am grateful.

Wish you all well. Stay safe, and enjoy your journey.

Namaste,
Stan

subhubphx

Namaste Stan.

I appreciate you Emma. I’m learning, learning…

I’ve had a lot of response to my post. I’m surprised that so many people weighed in. Thank you all for the feedback. Some of it misses the mark. Some of it doesn’t take into account my actual concerns. But some of it has me going, hum, never thought of it from that prospective. Learning… learning… Thank you.

For those of you who don’t know me, I’ve been doing sex research for 5 years adding to and deleting from a book I’m working on. I am absolutely good with anything people want to do as long as nobody is being manipulated, coerced, abused, or forced.. Have a great time, but do no harm!

I have no problem with people doing whatever turns them on and builds their relationship ~ including pegging, chastity, retention, and cuckolding, as long as it’s what they both desire.
~ We don’t personally use chastity or retention in our relationship as we have sex daily… she normally initiates.
~ We do include pegging as a switch game about 2x/year, so I have no problem with pegging.
~ We waited 30 years to try cuckolding… it lit her fire like she was 20 again and it sparked a competitiveness in me that is unrelenting. I was a huge fan of cuckolding until I discovered the divorce statistics among young couples who try hotwifing and cuckolding is astronomically high.

Unlike many of you, I’ve read almost this entire blog. If you haven’t followed the story from start to this point, you probably don’t have the same concerns for Kevin that I do/did.

If you don’t have the same education as Emma has… as I do, and know some of the “rules” of possessing that education, you probably don’t have the same concerns for Emma as I do.

Emma knows my concerns through some offline communications. She has knowledge and skills that put her at risk personally when exploring this lifestyle if not done with complete honesty and openness. She interpreted my concerns and addressed them in her reply here… mostly. She knows I’m concerned for her as much as I’m concerned for Kevin. As long as everything is clean, nobody should ever get hurt.

So, after her response, I will reiterate 1 thing. I know I probably won’t get her to see why this is important. but it is important. There is ONE CRUCIAL FACT in this equation. Hormones ARE drugs. Therefore, it could be argued that Kevin has been “drug” influenced through all these decisions.

I truly never thought of a better place to use this quote: “If you love Kevin, set him free (of the cage), If he returns to you (the cage), he’s yours to keep. If he doesn’t, he never was.

That’s it in a nutshell. Kevin’s decisions have all been clouded by the influence of raised Oxy levels. He may have made the same decisions regardless of his hormonal state. But he may not have. Oxy makes you submissive. Take him off retention for a month and have him orgasm 4x or 5x a week. Take a vacation from this lifestyle for a month. Reset his hormones.

If he wants to return to being locked up while clear headed/not influenced by hormones… then right on Emma! No more concerns from me for Kevin’s well being or your safety! Blog about it! Document it. Have fun but “stay safe” and never put yourself at risk of even the appearance of impropriety.

Hope you and Kevin are well!

, . Hey guys. Hope you’re well. There were some “never thought of it like that” in your responses. Appreciate you both!

, We have lot of the same concerns, saw a lot of the same deceptions… or what we perceived as deceptions. I got stuck on the fact that this blog started out all about how to become closer through chastity, retention, and pegging. It has evolved into a femdom blog.
The biggest issue I had was that most all of the men here initiated the flr. In this case, Emma got Kevin interested with straight sex, then had him under hormonal influence before taking this to flr/femdom.
I also have a problem with the misdirection. All the stuff about hormones isn’t about getting closer, it’s about gaining control.
Example: Women build a hormonal bond with a man when they take his ejaculate into their bodies. Kevin almost never ejaculates into Emma. How are they building their bond. It seems the only hormones at play here are ones that have to do with Kevin’s submissiveness.
I like you had the majority of my problem the dishonesty. Then I realized, maybe it isn’t dishonesty… maybe it’s just growing… evolving… becoming something different than what it was. I’ll give Emma the benefit of the doubt. As long as Kevin is cool with where this is going, I’m not judging.

~ I disagree! Drugs are drugs. You are not in your natural state and your decisions may be clouded. Kevin has never NOT been under hormone control since being placed in chastity. Take him out of chastity, reset his hormones, and if Emma can convince him to lock it up again… go for it girl!
Additionally, regardless of “how hard” you were to get into chastity… you’re there with no outside influence. You weren’t placed in chastity after already practicing retention so your hormones were high and you were more submissive.
You can go back through my posts to see my research. It is produced by doctors doing research, not blog posters with opinions.
The cage probably worked for you because of a libido issue. That’s why most people with ED have to take Viagra. Has nothing to do with the equipment, it’s in the mind. Chastity games turn on your mind so you get hard. Glad this has worked for you. Doesn’t work for everyone and not everyone wants it ~ even some of those in it.

Thanks Emma, Saw where Kevin had been unlocked ~ honor system vs. caged. Never saw that he was allowed to return to multiple ejaculations per week.

If that has indeed happened and then he preferred chastity, I apologize for ever doubting you, I missed it. If I didn’t miss it (I know everything isn’t in the blog) but resetting his ejaculations has occurred then he preferred retention/chastity, please make sure this is documented. You know all it does is keep you safe in the event of a he said/she said.

Spent most of my life keeping young people safe. Had to check on all the possible pitfalls before I could let it rest. I’m satisfied now that things are on the up and up. They appear to be and you both appear to be enjoying the journey.

Want to wish you both the best and most fulfilling life possible. Same wishes to all the posters here.

Take care and be well!

Stan

Hello Emma,

I’ve achieved additional clarity through these interactions. I appreciate it. I hope what I say causes you to reflect and examine yourself, even if I am harsh in my approach at times. Self actualization is truly the only way we ever grow.

subhubphx wrote ~ I’m not sure I understand where your angst/frustration towards our host comes from.

I realize I’m guilty. I come at you hard sometimes! I know how to state things without being brutal but sometimes I choose a more forceful or “in your face” approach. Mostly I do that to get a reaction from all the people here who will come to your rescue. It starts dialogue and helps me/has helped me learn a great deal.

I realize that I thought that because you write a blog about this type of sex that you should know all the theories, understand your own motives, not give bad advice, etc…

I realize NOW that you are just a young woman exploring, not some expert in this subject, and not some evil bitch playing a game with an innocent. You still may be playing games, but I don’t think you’re evil.

Some things about your response to my original post still niggle me though. Your answer in some cases was glib and didn’t tell the truth about the scenario.

Specifically this one:

Stan ~ Once you are pretty sure he has emotional feelings for you also… you start playing your games.

Emma ~ “I suppose you can put it this way, once there was an emotional connection and felt like we would be accepted by the other, we let our kink flags fly.”

Now this isn’t really what happened is it?… and it’s one of the times I call BS on you for not being honest.

~ You TOLD Kevin AFTER getting him interested in you through straight sex that essentially “The relationship would be over if he didn’t want to follow retention and chastity” rules you put in place. Because he didn’t want to lose the relationship, he agreed.

Is that NOT what happened?

PLEASE correct me if I’m wrong. The blog makes it appear pretty black and white ~ “my way or the highway”, you’re either in chastity or you are not in a relationship with me anymore.

The reason I have a problem with this bait and switch comes from how you met Kevin. You met on TINDER. At the time you went looking for a partner you already knew that you were ONLY interested in female led/femdom types of relationships.

Why didn’t you advertise for a bi, submissive man? It’s the internet. You can order it up exactly how you want it. Why didn’t you?

Is it more of a challenge if they don’t start off wanting to be submissive?

This isn’t the first relationship of this type you’ve had.
What happened to break those other relationships?
Did you push them too far or did you get bored when they had limits?

This is a big deal. Why Kevin instead of someone who wanted a flr/femdom relationship from the beginning.
Understand, I’m not saying Kevin isn’t loving it. But why “bend” Kevin to fit your desires/maybe his, instead of a partner who wanted to be controlled?

made some really good points. I hope you’re reflecting. The greatest gift in life is when we work on self actualization through reflection on our actions and see our true motives. It helps us learn, grow, become better humans.

The additional problems I have surround your seemingly unaware attitude of the psychological problems Kevin could face in the future. This when you claim to have a BA in psychology makes me question that degree’s validity.

People will do things in the moment and then regret them in the future if they aren’t consistent with that person’s core personality. You pushing straight men to try gay sexual practices is irresponsible and reckless.

: Right, so now Emma is all for unlocking Kevin, so long as its so he — a straight man — will engage in oral/anal sex with another man. A not-so-subtle power play. I have to roll my eyes at the unselfconscious statements that pop up in this blog like, ‘this isn’t a femdom blog’ and “I don’t want anything toxic in the bedroom.”
Emma quote: Kev is unlocked often and I am by no means trying to pressure him into anything. I do and say some things just to see if they will happen. If I tell you to do something, you are of the free will to either do that thing or not. Kev and of course Andrew are of that same freedom.

You say you “just suggest”. BS. Especially in Kevin’s case. A suggestion from you is the same as an order to Kevin ~ especially in the bedroom. Pulling them out of your mouth and having them fondle each other in that scenario was absolutely manipulative and coercive.

No harm, no foul, right? Everyone survived right? No one turned gay, right? You know better, or you should, if you actually possess a degree in psychology like you claim. There most definitely could be psychological fallout.

I find it interesting in that quote above that even YOU know the distinction. You wrote Kev “and of course” Andrew. That “and of course” shows that you know you don’t control Andrew but that you do in a way control Kev.

It’s easy to see your motivation Emma. Without a more dominant partner you’re missing the lust. If only Kev were bi, really bi, you could have a perfect world. One man for love and one man for lust. Wouldn’t it be so cool to share Kevin with your lover in all ways?

I think your experiment failed though. Kev doesn’t appear to be interested in bi sex, OR continuing the hotwife lifestyle. Where do you go from here? How do you satisfy the biological craving for lusty sex with a dominant man in this relationship if hotwifing isn’t in the cards?

Hope my feedback helps you see things from a somewhat different prospective and ask yourself some good questions. Learning is good. I’ve learned some REALLY interesting facts about myself through these interactions. Hopefully they’ll make me a better human.

HappyCuckold

Stan, I promised myself not to get drawn into this argument again, but I can’t resist. You see Kevin as a vanilla guy—or rather a “dominant guy” like you—who got lured by Emma into a dominant/submissive relationship, and now that he is in her clutches, he is the captive victim of the hormonal spell she casts over him by manipulating his access to orgasms. I don’t find that plausible. Kevin isn’t a victim. He’s a grown man, and if he wasn’t into the sadomasochistic erotic game he and Emma are playing, he wouldn’t play.  

I may annoy everyone by saying this, but the idea that a woman can control a man by manipulating his hormone levels that way is silly. I confess that I find the idea sexy, but it is pure science fiction. We are not biochemical robots that can be manipulated so easily. That fiction is often advanced by sexually submissive, masochistic men as an incentive for women to play erotic chastity games with them. “If you do this to me,” the guy promises, “I will have no choice but to submit to you body and soul.” The fiction is based on the premise that orgasms temporarily free a man from the hormonal chains that bind him. Therefore, by limiting his access to orgasms, a woman can keep him in a submissive state, assuring his obedience. I’ve had a great many orgasms in my life, and I have had periods without orgasms, and in my experience the hormonal effects of cumming or not cumming are simply not powerful enough to allow a woman to “manipulate” a man into doing things truly against his will.  

Now, I do believe Emma is able to cast a spell over Kevin. But she doesn’t do it by controlling his hormone levels. She does it by means of something far more powerful than his hormones. She does it by playing with sadomasochistic fantasies, and he is choosing to fall under her spell because it gives him erotic pleasure to do so. The idea that he is the passive victim of Emma’s hormonal witchcraft is utterly implausible, so I don’t think you need to rescue him, Stan.  

I know you will object that I am misreading the situation because of my own sexual submissiveness. You will say I am wrongly assuming that Kevin is like me, whereas you see him as a “dominant male” like you who has been misled by Emma. To that I would reply that Kevin’s compliance with Emma’s wishes strongly suggests that you have misread him. Would a dominant man who wasn’t turned on by cuckolding agree to be a cuckold? I don’t think so. Would a dominant man allow his partner to peg him in front of her lover if that didn’t turn him on? I don’t think so. Would a dominant heterosexual man allow his partner to browbeat him into having sexual contact with another man? I don’t think so. If Kevin was truly a dominant man like you, Stan, would he need you to rescue him from Emma? I don’t think so.  

The idea of hormonal enslavement put me in mind of that delightfully satirical song by Thomas Dolby, “She Blinded Me with Science.” To lighten up, everyone should go watch that music video on YouTube.

Hey Happy,

Through our discourse I’ve learned that sub men aren’t like me so I don’t think I’m guilty of transference anymore.

What I also realize is that NOT all submissive men are the same either. I got stuck on the fact that Kevin “signed up” for the way this relationship was originally ~ loving female leadership, No cuckolding, no bi sex BS.

As this relationship has evolved, I saw what I believed to be an unfair manipulation of one human by another human for their personal entertainment.

What I failed to identify is that this relationship is changing. If Kevin doesn’t object to moving more into submission, why should I?

I’m now all good with this relationship for the most part. I still think it’s manipulative and deceptive but not dangerous for Kevin’s mental health in the long run. That is truly all I worry about. Everybody have fun and nobody gets hurt in the end.

Be well Happy!

HappyCuckold

Thanks, Stan.
You are right that we submissive men aren’t all the same. In fact, based on discussions with other submissive men, I think some of us differ more from each other than from vanilla men. There are so many femdom kinks: spanking, domestic service, chastity, pegging, oral servitude, feminization, cuckolding, forced bisexuality. I don’t think that’s even an exhaustive list. Some guys are fixated on one specific kink and hate the rest. Some might have one or two kinks, and some might have the full range. Some of us are truly submissive and want to serve our wives; many are only theatrically submissive and want to control the ways their partners “dominate” them.

Complicating things further, some of us change once we start down the path. For me it started with a spanking fetish. But once my wife started spanking me, I started to develop other kinks. I would not have believed when my wife started spanking me and making me do the housework that it would lead to cuckolding, but it did.

I understand your concern for Kevin who signed up for “loving female leadership”, and not things like cuckolding and forced-bi. But I think that kind of evolution is understandable. It was my idea for my wife to cuckold me. But it is conceivable to me that a dominant woman could discover a man’s kinks before he becomes aware of them himself.. As I see it, Kevin may not have known that when Emma locked his penis in a cage, she was leading him down a path to cuckolding. But I would theorize that Kevin submitted to cuckoldiing because he discovered that
he liked it,

Headtrip

Stan,
Like a few others I wanted to wait a few days before responding. And I certainly didn’t want to speak for Emma. But I am also a dominant male who has been “manipulated” into chastity. My wife will freely admit it, and she mentions often that I am “a tough one to keep in chastity”.  I am not naturally submissive, even sexually, yet I truly enjoy this lifestyle.

If she set me free, as you suggest, and we had sex regularly as before (3-5x per week plus self pleasure) I would NOT feel like locking back up. Leptoprin does that to us guys. It has happened to us and eventually she finds a way to “manipulate” me back in.

Here’s the thing: there is a huge difference between “manipulating” natural hormones and illicit drugs. I am still of clear mind even if my emotions are raging one way or the other. And I know, locked or free, that a few minutes of orgasmic joy does not compare to the heightened state of libido I get to enjoy for long periods on end with chastity. The fact that the increased Dopamine, Testosterone and Oxytocin also create a perfect environment for serving her and feeling joy in the process is just an extra win for both of us. I feel like an 18 year old in love all over again and it doesn’t fade. That makes for a great marriage. Why is that bad? At all?

Speaking of those hormones, I haven’t read too many scientific studies stating that those are bad for you. In fact, medical science is always working on ways to increase Dopamine, Testosterone and sometimes Oxytocin. And lately they have been working on ways to reduce Leptoprin. So I naturally enjoy the benefits that others require medications for.

I also don’t know where you get your data for ED. I was diagnosed with ED and needed Cialis to function at my A game. Spent a few months in a chastity cage and I assure you my ED is cured. Very cured.

To imply Emma hides the health facts from us is equally absurd. Most any locked male, dominant or submissive, has spent lots of time comparing notes and looking thru the studies, including the Harvard study you indicated. While that one is worrisome (I thought it indicated more like 20% increased risk and admitted to other related correlations with weight, alcohol use and other factors), other studies, including a later Cancer Center NSW study of 10,000 males found the opposite effect. No study could find a causation. This is most critical because it is impossible to know what is going on with those guys who claim only 4-7 ejaculations a month (which seems absurdly low). Chastity play includes lots of arousal, leaking and frequently prostate stimulation which may be beneficial to prostate health but have not been clinically studies. And most men in chastity care more than average for prostate health and are likely to stay current on their checkups (okay, I have generalized here based on the groups I am a member in). The point, as the Mayo clinic reported last year, is that none of this is proven “fact”. I would argue that you manipulated the data more than Emma.

Sexual manipulation has been going on since Adam and Eve. Do I think my wife manipulates me? I certainly do. And I thank her everyday.

Headtrip ~ I also don’t know where you get your data for ED. I was diagnosed with ED and needed Cialis to function at my A game. Spent a few months in a chastity cage and I assure you my ED is cured. Very cured.

My data comes from urologists. You know, the guys and gals who study penises and how they work. They ALL say that caging a penis overnight is bad for penis health. Nocturnal erections are important and limiting them could cause ED issues ~ not “will”, “could”.

The fact that chastity cured your ED is because your problem isn’t/wasn’t physical, it was mental. As in most cases of ED, it isn’t the equipment that doesn’t work, it’s the mind. Chastity turned you on so now you can get hard. Being controlled is something you wanted, and when you got it your body responded.

Headtrip ~  This is most critical because it is impossible to know what is going on with those guys who claim only 4-7 ejaculations a month (which seems absurdly low).

Absurdly low = EXACTLY ~ Kevin gets to cum 1x/wk or 4x per month. The worst possible frequency for prostate health.

Patient summary: We evaluated whether ejaculation frequency throughout adulthood is related to prostate cancer risk in a large US-based study. We found that men reporting higher compared to lower ejaculatory frequency in adulthood were less likely to be subsequently diagnosed with prostate cancer.

30K+ subjects. 14 years of follow up so far. This is a normalized study accounting for other factors that lead to prostate cancer.

The findings are NOT ambiguous. Pretty black and white!

MEN REPORTING A HIGHER EJACULATION FREQUENCY IN ADULTHOOD WERE LESS LIKELY TO BE SUBSEQUENTLY DIAGNOSED WITH PROSTATE CANCER!!!

PERIOD! End of story.

Believe what you want but that is the science.

Headtrip ~ Most any locked male, dominant or submissive…

Dude… get this. There are NO dominant males locked in chastity. The thought of letting ANYONE control me in any way is unthinkable to me. I’ll discuss things with you. I’ll try to compromise the way I’m doing things if I’m upsetting you. But at the end of the day, I do me. Nobody “tells” me what to do… If someone is telling you what to do… even your wife… you are NOT dominant.

Think I’ve touched on the things you stated that I disagree with.

Hope you’re well and having a great day!

jmn

I know that I’m late to the debate and that a lot of it has been settled, but I just wanted to get my two cents in about a point made in Stan’s comment:

You knew from the beginning that you don’t want a conventional sexual relationship, but you “entice” Kevin with a normal sexual relationship and then reveal your true self. That’s a huge “bait and switch” if you ask me. I would call that the “ultimate manipulation”.

You play games Emma ~ you planned and manipulated this relationship from the beginning. You aren’t honest Emma ~ you knew exactly what you wanted and didn’t tell Kevin until you had him “under your spell”

Not disclosing, in the early stages of a causal romantic relationship, what you expect from a long-term relationship is not deceptive because that information is not relevant to the other person’s decision to begin or continue a casual short-term relationship. People very often choose not to state up-front what they expect from a long-term relationship, whether it be that they want two sons and two daughters by the time they are 30, or that they want to control when their partner gets to have an orgasm.

Secondly, seeking to develop a person’s interest in you by being more sexually generous and laid-back than you plan to be if the relationship continues is not deceptive because it does not carry with it the suggestion that things will always be that way. This is because it is commonly understood that people put their very best foot forward at the start of new relationships and delay revealing the less enticing things that will come up if the relationship continues in the hope that the other person will be sufficiently “under their spell” to put up with them and their expectations once things get more serious.

Sure, it’s not the most transparent way of doing things, but it is the way relationships tend to start. Let’s not forget that the main reason behind Emma’s blog and approach to relationships is the fact that men in long-term relationships are generally far less attentive to their wives and girlfriends than they demonstrate themselves capable of being at the start of a relationship.

subhubphx

” … and that a lot of it has been settled,…” Not sure anything was or even needed to be settled here my friend, but I hear ya. Perhaps we’ll never know. Stan bid us all adieu by taking his ball and going home. I hope he comes back. My guess is that he will.